Posts by leaving

16

Two questions to make one think

by Rufus T. Firefly in

jw
friends

how do you think the wtb&ts (and the average jw) would answer the following two questions?

how would you answer them?.

(1) can one be a genuine christian without being a jw?.

leaving_quietly

Seems to me a genuine Christian is one who Christ himself chooses. Why?

Matt 7:21-23: "“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22?Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23?And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."

Thus, anyone who thinks they are a genuine Christian may very well not be.

15

CO talk at SAD appl. of 2 Thess. 1:8 & other mind control tactics

by Kensho in

jw
friends

now that i am really "awake" at the assemblies i pay more attention to what the borg's traveling enforcers say and the talk he gave was some "new light" on 2 thess.

1:8 (probably his opinion).

paraphrased " there is a thinking that has crept in somehow in the minds of some brothers over the years that because jehovah is a merciful &loving god he will not destroy those who have not been reached with the good news in different parts of the world or my family or bible studies need just a little more time, well they need to read this script.. .

leaving_quietly

Thankfully, Blondie posted relevant quotes from articles.

"There is a thinking that has crept in somehow in the minds of some brothers over the years..."

Go on... blame the JWs.

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

leaving_quietly

This article was written in 1876; it was in that same year that Russell accepted Barbour's conclusion that Jesus had returned in 1874, that the time of trouble had already begun since 1874, and that the Gentile Times would end in 1914.

The 1876 articles states (scroll down to the second page in the scan):

"If the Gentile Times end in 1914, (and there are many other and clearer evidences pointing to the same time) and we are told that it shall be with fury poured out; a time of trouble such as never was before, nor ever shall be; a day of wrath, etc., how long before does the church escape?"

Now that I re-read this, and along with all your other posts, I am going to amend my original and subsequent statements (hey... I make mistakes, and I'm sorry... I am not a prophet, nor inspired, nor spirit-directed, nor God's mouthpiece... LOL!)

My original statement said that the 1876 article agrees with the quote in the WT that "the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble". On re-reading the 1876 article, the pertinent part quoted above, it doesn't say that the time of trouble would start in 1914. It also doesn't say it would end in 1914. It simply says that the Gentile Times would end in 1914 and that it would be "a time of trouble". Thus, we're down to only two parts agreeing with the 2/15 article: (1) Decades before (1876 qualifies) and (2) the Gentile Times (aka "the appointed times of the nations") would end in 1914. As for the third part... my bad. Doesn't say what my eyes told me it said originally.

THANK YOU ALL for pointing this out. Deceptive, very deceptive on the part of the Society to do this.

11

Watchtower Speaker Giddy Over Slaughter Of Billions in convention talk

by Watchtower-Free in

the god of love speaks through a watchtower representative.

the speaker is.

ciro aulicino 2007. this is the jwfacts condensed version.

leaving_quietly

I haven't watched it, yet, but one of my favorite scriptures nowadays is Amos 5:18 which, in part, says: "Woe to those who are craving the day of Jehovah!"

33

Evil Slave

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

evil slave.

as it turns out, according to watchtower as of now we need only take a look at 8 men of watchtower, and then ask and answer a question in order to be on the safe side.

my article is titled evil slave and is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2013/04/evil-slave.html.

leaving_quietly

Commentaries put the "evil slave" in an interesting perspective:

http://bible.cc/matthew/24-49.htm

40

My experience today

by leaving_quietly in

jw
friends

discussion with wife today led to her questioning whether i believe or not.

i told her that i just can't roll over and accept everything new thing they say just like that.

we were, of course, talking about the "new light".

leaving_quietly

Thanks, all, for your kind words.

When she asked if I thought I was smarter than the GB, I thought to myself: "Yes! The Bible says one thing but the WT says another... how dumb do you have to be???" But I didn't say what I was really thinking.

Sadly, since I've started my "journey", as my wife calls it, she has been reading every piece of WT literature she can get her hands on so as to "fortify" herself. It's a travesty, really. The more I learn about TTATT, the more I see her digging her heels in.

For now, though, we've agreed to table further discussions on the subject, so the surface tension is eased. It's still there, but at least she knows how I feel about the changes with "generation" and this latest FDS debacle. She said she hasn't read the 7/15 WT yet. I told her there are numerous changes, but the one I can't deal with is that they used to say they were appointed over all of Christ's belonging in 1918/1919 (they've flip-flopped on the, I told her). I said, "this is something Christendom has been saying all along, that Christ's arrival is yet future!). That and along with the whole trust issue I mentioned from the OD book (I said OM, but I meant OD... OM was the book prior to the current one.)

The reference, in case anyone's interested, is od p. 18: "There are many reasons to have complete trust in the slave class. First and foremost, Jesus has appointed them over all his precious "belongings." This is a clear indication that he has complete trust in them."

wannabefree, I do have depression... self-diagnosed... I refuse to go to the Dr and get put on meds. My wife feels the depression is the leading cause of all this.

Data-Dog:

My wife told me that the GB have more holy spirit

Yes, she said something similar to me. I didn't remind her that they said at the annual meeting that it wasn't like they had a hole in the ceiling with Holy Spirit coming down. I *did* say to her: then why are they continuing to change? Jehovah never told his prophets one thing, then change it up, then change it up again, then change it back, and so on. This isn't the pattern Jehovah uses. It's very strange, and it's very frustrating. The "truth", I said, is a whole lot different than when I got baptized, and we're just supposed to roll over and accept any ol' thing they say.

The other thing I wanted to say, but didn't, is: "There's a reason James said what he said: "Not many of YOU should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment." (James 3:1)"

*lost*, love your idea. LOL!

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

leaving_quietly

Would this be considered a "balanced consideration" of our spiritual heritage?

40

My experience today

by leaving_quietly in

jw
friends

discussion with wife today led to her questioning whether i believe or not.

i told her that i just can't roll over and accept everything new thing they say just like that.

we were, of course, talking about the "new light".

leaving_quietly

@Nathan Natas, first, welcome back! Second, I know you asked rhetorically, but I'll respond anyway... yes, she is fragile emotionally, diagnosed by a medical doctor many years ago with more than one form of depression and anxiety. Coddling is necessary, I believe. To be sure, I've spent the better part of the last year mentally preparing myself for a possible eventuality of having to deal with elders. I hope it doesn't happen, but I think it will in one form or another sooner or later. I certainly won't initiate it, but I will deal with it, if it happens.

@Ding, no worries... I don't plan on saying much to her or anyone else. I'm here on this forum because it's the only place I can openly vent. It's kinda therapeutic, to a degree. I don't agree with everything said on here, but there is definitely a wealth of knowledge here that is hard to beat anywhere. Not all of it is accurate, and that's okay. Some of it is spiteful, and that's understandable. But it's a place to come, listen, observe, get a different perspective, etc.

@TJ Curioso, w10 4/15 p. 11 par 17 says this: "How will Jehovah use his holy spirit in the coming new world? That spirit will be the force behind the new scrolls that will be opened at that time. (Rev. 20:12) What will these contain? Evidently, Jehovah’s detailed requirements for us during the thousand years. Do you look forward to examining the contents of those scrolls? With eager anticipation, we await that new world. We cannot begin to imagine what it will be like to be living at that blessed time when Jehovah will use his holy spirit to fulfill his purpose for the earth and humankind upon it."

What does Rev 20:12 say?

"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds."

The phrase "new scrolls" isn't there. In fact, that phrase is not found in the Bible at all. There are scrolls open, and one other scroll, the scroll of life (which is the "scroll" I was referring to when my wife and I were talking.) What's in them? Don't know, but the last sentence of verse 12 says the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. The entire context of that part of Rev 20 is about the judgement of the dead and has nothing to do with requirements for live during the thousand years. In addition, all this occurs after the thousand years have ended (Rev 20:7 sets the stage as to the timing, since it says "Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison") so it being requirements for living during the thousand years when they aren't even open until after the thousand years makes no sense.

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

leaving_quietly

Today's WT is dishonest regarding what Russell taught concerning 1914.

No question. I agree. To an average JW, though, you have to respond to the exact words, which I attempted to do (and failed... )

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

leaving_quietly

Erm... sorry... didn't mean to make this into a battle.

TL;DR - "I agree with you... I am simply responding to the exact wording in the paragraph."

Longer version:

But, to be clear, the WT views 1914 as both the end of the Gentile Times and the beginning of the last days. Today's WT talked specifically referred to 1914 as the end of "the appointed time of the nations" (aka the Gentile Times), so we're not talking about the beginning of the last days here, therefore, that shouldn't be part of the discussion. Thus, I maintain that the article today is technically correct. We all know about the "last days" debacle. I'm not denying that. I'm just using the words in the paragraph today and comparing them to what the 1876 article said (and what the 1888 article you quoted said... "full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914".

If today's article said, "Decades before 1914, Jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the last days would begin in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble." then we would be having an entirely different discussion, and we would all be on the same page. But, they didn't say that. However, as my dad once told me, "Pay particular attention to how the Society words things. They do it for a reason." Often, that reason is to gloss over certain things, as is clearly the case here. So, based on the wording alone, I am simply pointing out that what they said today is technically correct. Of course, anyone who does research would come across all the references you brought up, and as per last week's article, we should be examining our rich heritage, should we not?

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly