My experience today

leaving_quietly

Discussion with wife today led to her questioning whether I believe or not. I told her that I just can't roll over and accept everything new thing they say just like that. We were, of course, talking about the "new light". She said we should trust them as they are God's channel.

First, a bit of a disclaimer... my wife is very fragile emotionally, so I had to tread very, very carefully. I think I did that successfully, but here's a brief recap of what happened from this point forward:

I said that, just like the story of the boy who cried wolf, the Society has done just that one too many times for my taste, and it simply boils down to trust. I told her that whether or not they are the faithful and discreet slave or not is not my big issue. My issue is the trust issue. They came out and said they have not yet been appointed over all of Christs' belongings, which the OM book said is the number one reason we *should* trust them. Therefore, if they keep changing their minds about things, how can we say they are guided by God's spirit? Never once in the scriptures did Jehovah tell his prophets one thing, then later change it up, then later change it up again. We call that "progressive understanding" or "new light", but in reality, that's just an excuse for previously wrong understandings. And, even if He had, why would his spirit guide the Society into false claims where people can so easily pick up on it and call them out on it?

At this point, she started saying that I had a mental illness. I said: "Wait a sec... just because I read the Bible, and where it says something that differs with the Society, that means *I* have a mental illness?" She said she knew something was wrong some time ago when I brought up that I didn't know whether the Society's stance on the cross was correct. She said she spent two hours researching it and "it was clear as a bell to me." I asked where she did her research. She exclaimed: "In the publications!" I said, "Yeah, but the publications quote secular sources that support their view. There are other sources that say otherwise." She said: "Do you think you are smarter than the Society? You're not." I said: "Of course not, but am I supposed to take things at face value? That makes no sense. The Society looks at secular sources, so why can't I?" She didn't have much to say about that. During the course of the conversation, she said all the things that one would expect. At one point, she said, "You have to wait on Jehovah to clarify things, and some things may not ever be clarified this side of Armageddon." Then, she proceeded to say that we'll have a new Bible in the new system. I said: "What are you talking about?" She said, "The new scrolls." My jaw dropped a little, then I said, "You mean scroll." She started to get upset with me. I said, "Hey... it was one of my research projects. There's no such thing as 'new scrolls'. It's not in the Bible at all." She didn't want to hear that one bit, and I didn't proceed with explaining what the scroll was actually about.

The conversation was edgy, but not angry, and I wasn't about to hit her with both barrels, so to speak. I told her that after learning what I know, it's kinda hard to not dwell on it and just go back to having the Society do all my research for me. I also told her that it wouldn't be so bad if the Society were not so dogmatic with everything, because they are NOT right all the time, and because the HAVE changed many, many times, so my frustration is with their dogmatism and not allowing us to ask questions freely.

The conversation ended somewhat friendly (as friendly as it could be, I suppose), as I told her that I was not out to change her mind about things, and that it will be hard for me to just simply forget everything I now know. She was pretty upset, and as most of you can guess, she hinted that the marriage did indeed depend on me being a good little witness boy.

This was my first experience of what it may be like some time down the road. To those of you who have gone through this... I now understand more fully.

NeverKnew

For whatever it's worth, Justus Lipsius' De Cruci Libri noted in the Watchtower literature is on Google Books for FREE. Some versions have more pictures than others.

It's written in Latin - still and yet, if I see a picture of a dude on a CROSS with his head glowing and INRI on a plaque above his head, I don't have to be an expert in Latin translation to figure out who it's depicting. *sigh*

I so hope you get through to her.

Newly Enlightened

Here's one for you, right from the Reasoning Book. This is what did it for us. pg 89 under subheading 'Cross'. In that first paragraph you will notice a quote from the IMPERIAL BIBLE Dictionary. There a few [...] in there. When you go to the ACTUAL source. Link below. The IBD says something quite differently that what is quoted in the Reasoning Book and is actually pro-cross.

Why

doWatchTowerpublicationsshowJesusonastakewithhandsoverhisheadinsteadofonthetraditional

cross?

The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau·ros

′ . In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. TheImperialBible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [ stau·ros ′ ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376

What the IBD actually says:

The Greek word for cross, (stauros), properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling (fencing in) a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans, the crux (from which the word cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a traverse piece of wood was commonly added: not however always then. … There can be no doubt, however, that the later sort was the more common, and that about the period of the Gospel Age, crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.
… But the commonest form, it is understood, was that in which the upright piece of wood was crossed by another near the top, but not precisely at it, the upright pole running above the other, thus "a cross" and so making four, not merely two right angles. It was on a cross of this form, according to the general voice of tradition, that our Lord suffered.
... It may be added that crucifixion was abolished around the time of Constantine, in consequence of the sacred associations which the cross had now gathered around it."

Imperial Bible Dictionary pg 376

http://archive.org/stream/theimperialbible01unknuoft#page/376/mode/1up

Julia Orwell

I feel for ya. Don't be too quick to assail the wt or she'll go into defense mode. Maybe get her to read some books on north Korea or casually tell her some parallel facts about other religions as stated on Jwfacts.

I think it's great you could have this conversation. Continue to show love- the wt love bombs you when you join and it's a tried and true method. Love bombing your wife will show her you're not turning evil.

LoisLane looking for Superman

Leaving Quietly...You are such a good husband.

I am so sorry this stupid book publishing company is getting between you two.

I read over some of your earlier posts. You are trying so hard, to gently wake her up.

For her to pick up the book publishing company's mantra of whoever doesn't believe their made up doctrines...is mentally diseased would be hilarious, if it wasn't so sad.

Just keep posting and let us know how you are getting along.

Take care.

Just Lois

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

"At this point, she started saying that I had a mental illness.... she hinted that the marriage did indeed depend on me being a good little witness boy."

That's worth documenting. It sounds like the beginning of more emotional abuse she'll bring up if you dare to even question a word published in WT litteratrash.

Crazyguy

Wow so similiar to the conversation that i had with my wife a coupe of weeks ago, except my wife said she would leave me and take the kids because of spiritual endangerment (weres that in the bible). It really become clear how brainwashing really works. It amazes me how they can just dismiss every mistake the GB has made over the years and still believe thier the F&DS giving us all proper food at proper time. I mentioned to the elders a few weeks ago about proper food at the proper time and asked them if the 1975 food from Jehovah was a April fools joke. Sorry your going through this, your wifes going to look at you a whole different way now.

Comatose

Hang in there. If you don't push it and be very patient she may come around. Just ask open ended questions to get her thinking. Take her on a quick weekend surprise vacation in the next month right after she misses the midweek meeting. Get her away from the hall for a little time and your questions will reach her more.

Pickler

Sounds like you are walking a fine line there with your wife.

It reminds me of that excellent quote that someone put up here a few weeks ago, I can't remember the thread, but, It went something like this..

"I don't mind having questions I can't answer, but, I do mind having answers I can't question"

Something like that, anyway, sounds like that's what you are trying to say.

Good luck.

Black Sheep

You talk too much and she doesn't want to hear it. Ask questions instead. If she gives an answer that you know is contradicted in the Bible, the WT, or the secular source she is quoting make her feel she should read you the relevent document as soon as she finds it. Now would be good, you go make the coffee while she gets it.

My experience today

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