leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  37

  Whats the most damning of the July 15 2013 changes?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a lot of the rank and file at the meetings seem to think some of the changes make more sense but what is the most damning of the changes that may help to wake to some up.

  some thing the rank and file will not first see or understand as a big deal?.

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  leaving_quietly

  Gem of a quote from "God's Kingom Has Approached" (1973):

  chap 17: p. 388 par 15,16 (emphasis theirs, not mine):

  "This limiting the “slave” to the twelve apostles, however, might allow for the doctrine of an apostolic succession or an episcopal succession, a succession of bishops (overseers) by the religious process of ordination.
  16 However, when we view the “faithful and discreet slave” as being the whole body of disciples (including spiritual overseers), it eliminates such a thing as “episcopal succession” that history shows has worked such harm and oppression in Christendom."
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  4

  We don’t interpret the Bible!

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower teaches that they do not interpret the bible.

  interpretation is something everyone else does.

  it is basically claimed by adherants: we dont interpret the bible!

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  leaving_quietly

  As if "who is the faithful and discreet slave" isn't an interpretation?

  As if "the great crowd" isn't an interpretation?

  And so on...
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  65

  intel on warwick project

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the committee assigned to build the new complex was called into a meeting with the governing body.

  they were told " you finish this project by january 1 2017. we want the keys to the complex and will be headquartered there by that date, do you understand?".

  when the brothers protested and said that it would take 6 years for the project to be complete and if they moved that fast there would be many mistakes, the gb responded, "we don't care, that is your deadline".

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  leaving_quietly

  marked
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  16

  Went to DC... wife had a moment of clarity

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so, off we went to the dc.

  the public talk was "what is truth".

  in it, the speaker said, "the truth can stand up to any scrutiny.

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  leaving_quietly

  @wallsofjericho - that was my first thought. However, the expression on her face was truly one of surprise. I do think she was gauging my reaction at the same time, but the look was unmistakable.

  She has been doing a LOT of reading on how to deal with disappointments. I think she's disappointed with me. However, in one of her stacks of older WTs, there was one that the cover article was "Is there only one True Religion?" (or something like that). I looked through the magazine to see what article she might be reading, and NONE were about disappointment. Makes me think maybe she's starting to question things a little. I have been absolutely silent on any topic related to WT teachings. I figure either she'll wake up or she won't. She'll have to do it when she's ready, though. I am fully awake now. Anything WT-related is pretty much background noise. I'm going through the motions for the moment, but that's about it.
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  16

  Went to DC... wife had a moment of clarity

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so, off we went to the dc.

  the public talk was "what is truth".

  in it, the speaker said, "the truth can stand up to any scrutiny.

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  leaving_quietly

  So, off we went to the DC. The public talk was "What is Truth". In it, the speaker said, "The truth can stand up to any scrutiny." I was listening, but staring across the stadium. Out of the corner of my eye, my wife, who was taking notes, looked up quickly, as if in shock at the statement, then glanced over at me. I looked at her briefly, then went back to staring across the stadium. When I say brief, I mean like a half-second. The look I caught, though, was as if what she heard did not compute, as if she awakened for the very first time, as if to ever-so-briefly understand exactly what I've been going through. Alas, it didn't last. She went back to sleep.
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  4

  New blog post.

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  latest is up, this one is on the keynote address.

  i think they inadvertently told the truth about their relationship to the governing body.

  http://pathologicallyintellectual.blogspot.com/.

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  leaving_quietly

  I had to listen to this one, and something struck me about these organizational adjustments (which they say was just a big word for "changes"). In my head, I was comparing each one to what a company does. These do not amount to organizational changes (save maybe #4).

  1) A separate study edition of the Watchtower - product change
  2) Introduction of a public edition of the magazine - product change
  3) Reduction of the Awake magazine to sixteen pages - product change
  4) Combining midweek meetings, leaving a night free for personal or family study - organization change?
  5) Arrangement for Pioneers (full-time preachers) to attend the Pioneer school twice - policy change
  6) A Bible School for Christian couples - product change
  7) Greater use of audio and video productions - sales / marketing change
  8) A redesigned website - product / marketing change
  9) Expanded efforts at preaching in Public places - marketing change
  10) New “Research Guide for Jehovah’s Witnesses - new product

  They go on to tell us to support these changes. Which ones could the individual JW actually NOT support? #4 is the only one that really qualifies, and even that's iffy.
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  47

  calling all elders - what goes on at the week long elders school?

  by not bitter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my dad is currently attending a week long elders school.

  dad is in his 70's and not in great health at the moment so this is adding to my anger that he is having to leave the house at 7am and doesn't return until 6pm and then has to lock himself away to study further in preparation for the next day.. he has also been told he is not to discuss anything about the school with other elders until they have all attended.

  what are they learning about that isnt' already out there for all to read anyway.. they can't be learning more bible stuff as the bible is there to be read by the general public so i can only assume that its all top secret stuff that the rest of the congregation can't know about.

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  leaving_quietly

  @ApostateChick Do they also teach you to ask horrifying questions which involve women/girls and sexual acts? This has been a widespread practice, for years. Just curious if this is "elder" policy, or if this is something they do just to get themselves off? I was asked very personal, sexual things as a young girl in my JC with 3 elders I'd never met in my entire life... And heard firsthand from other girls and women who have been subjected to the same thing in several different congregations in all different locations of the US/Europe.

  I have been horrified by the questions I've heard that some elders have asked. I've never been in a committee that asked those details. And as an ex-elder, I'm truly sorry this happened to you. This is NOT elder policy. At least, not these days. I couldn't say what happened prior to twelve years ago or so.

  The unfortunate thing is that an embarrassing question may have to be asked, but not always. You'd be surprised how many think they've committed immorality just for passionate kissing and touching of the breasts. So, I've had to ask whether it was only the breasts that were touched or if it went further. And that's how I'd phrase it, always prefacing it with: "I'm sorry, but I have to ask a sensitive question. I really don't want to know the details, and I don't want to embarrass you further than you already are." Then I'd proceed with that ONE question. Why that question? Pornea involves touching of the genitals, and breasts are not considered genitalia. Thus if that's all someone did, proceed with counseling, end of committee, not a DFing offense. I've only ever had to ask this question twice, once with a male, once with a female. To me, if someone says they've had sex with someone not their mate, there's no need for details. That's a confession, plain and simple... work with the repentence, not the sin. I always looked for a way to retain my brother or sister. Some were repentent. Some were blatantly not.
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  47

  calling all elders - what goes on at the week long elders school?

  by not bitter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my dad is currently attending a week long elders school.

  dad is in his 70's and not in great health at the moment so this is adding to my anger that he is having to leave the house at 7am and doesn't return until 6pm and then has to lock himself away to study further in preparation for the next day.. he has also been told he is not to discuss anything about the school with other elders until they have all attended.

  what are they learning about that isnt' already out there for all to read anyway.. they can't be learning more bible stuff as the bible is there to be read by the general public so i can only assume that its all top secret stuff that the rest of the congregation can't know about.

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  leaving_quietly

  In addition to what James Jackson said, we also went over some very interesting things about the name Jehovah in the NWT... most of what you can read for yourself in the forward and the Appendix 1D in the large Reference Bible. Also, we went over "Jehovah" and "Sovereignty" in the Insight book.

  Oh, and we went over Gen 3:1-5 about how Satan didn't entirely lie to Eve. For example:

  vs 5: "For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad."

  vs 22: "And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—"

  Judicial committees were discussed, but there was another more recent two-day school that dealt with DFings much more in detail.
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  12

  Confessing Sins !.... to Man, Priest. Non - Biblical Teaching ?

  by *lost* in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is this not one of the statement jw's use against the church.. that it is non-biblical.. .

  can anyone add to this, very interesting me thinks.. ( will look it up in more detail and add to it ).

  thanks.

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  leaving_quietly

  Not certain what you are after. However, no, confessing sins to a man, elders, overseers, a priest, etc. is not biblical.

  Therefore openly confess YOUR sins to one another and pray for one another, that YOU may get healed. A righteous man’s supplication, when it is at work, has much force.
  - James 5:16

  Paul, in writing 1 Corinthians, did not address it to the elders of the congregation:

  Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through God’s will, and Sos′the·nes our brother 2 to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to YOU who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours
  - 1 Cor 1:1,2

  Thus, when he wrote "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves" (1 Cor 5:13), he was talking to the whole congregation. In addition, 2 Cor 2:6 says: "This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man."

  These verses all indicate that confession and discipline should be open at the congregation level.
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  54

  Brothers told to pack an "Armagedon survival bag."...bid gossip in Aust!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so my mum excitedly calls and tells me how the brothers are now told to pack a survival emergency bag, so the tribulation is coming!!!

  talk about clutching at straws.

  shes packed her bible of course and the some non essential stuff like food...he he.

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  leaving_quietly

  It strikes me as very strange that average JWs view this practical direction as something more than it is. And, yes, this is one thing I do think is practical. If anyone lives in an area prone to natural disasters (e.g. earthquakes, tornados, etc.) then this is good direction. I, for one, am glad they take this seriously. As Blondie said, though:

  So who told them it was for the GT...did they put 2 and 2 together and get 5?