leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  9

  WatchtowerBrooklynRealestate com Created Date: 2015-11-17 by WT

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://watchtowerbrooklynrealestate.com/.

  its their site.

  https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=watchtowerbrooklynrealestate.com.

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  leaving_quietly

  I was under the impression they sold off their NYC properties. Guess I was mistaken.
  
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  60

  Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

  seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

  they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

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  leaving_quietly

  I've actually been told by a JW that Jehovah is allowing these things to occur the same way he allowed Saul to continue despite him no longer being anointed. Jehovah is "allowing" JW's loyalty to be tested.

  This has nothing, NOTHING to do with loyalty to Jehovah. Any JW that says that is attempting to hide their head in the sand. This has EVERYTHING to do with JUSTICE and MERCY for the victims.

  And since Saul was brought up here, this is a stupid red herring. David's loyalty to God was not in question, and neither is a JW's loyalty to God in question with this issue. Was IS in question is whether this organization will continue on their pharisaical, rigid path, or bend a little for the benefit of the victims.
  
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  60

  Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

  seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

  they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

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  leaving_quietly

  The November 9, 2015 response is the one I'm reading, and yes, there is quite a bit of arrogance, telling the Commission what is and what is not within their "Terms of Reference" and even calling one "junior lawyer," "inexperienced". Here's what caught my attention:

  5.18 Jehovah’s Witnesses consider that the requirement for two witnesses is not a matter for debate as it is based on Scriptural requirements found in the Mosaic Law and reiterated by Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul.37 Even when the requisite Scriptural evidence is lacking, elders nevertheless take precautionary measures.

  While the Mosaic Law DOES permit a single witness in an extenuating circumstance, as was proven more than once in the hearings, the organization blatantly REFUSES to bend on this. Deut 22:25-27.

  By saying that Christ reiterated this is Pharisaical. Christ also said this: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness."
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  23

  Anointed Directing the Anointed?

  by compound complex in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  [.

  ] resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

  revelation: its grand climax at hand!, pages, 124, 125, paragraph 17..

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  leaving_quietly

  leaving _quietly. are you trying to take our fun away with this idea we like?

  
  

  It kinda all gets thrown to heck if you think about the 12 seeing Jesus conversing with Moses and Elijah ....

  Except it was only three, not the twelve.

  "28 In fact, about eight days after saying these words, he took Peter, John, and James along and climbed up the mountain to pray. 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his face changed and his clothing became glitteringly white. 30 And look! two men were conversing with him; they were Moses and E·liʹjah.

  Luke 9:28-30
  
  
  
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  23

  Anointed Directing the Anointed?

  by compound complex in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  [.

  ] resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

  revelation: its grand climax at hand!, pages, 124, 125, paragraph 17..

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  leaving_quietly

  As usual, the organization takes, "may be", "perhaps", "evidently" and the like literally. I can recall hearing one GB member saying that Guy Pierce was already helping to direct in his new position in heaven.

  They base this particular doctrine (that they've already been raised) on 1 Cor 15:22,23:

  For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.

  This is because of their insistence that parousia means "presence", not "coming" or "arrival", and their mistranslation of the Greek work "en" as "during" instead of "at". Verse 23 should read, "But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ at his arrival."

  
  
  
  
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  27

  Message from an elder

  by paradisebeauty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  elder: plese watch the november programm on jw broadcasting.. me: what i hope for is the change of the doctrine that states that jesus is not the mediator between jehovah and all jw's but only between jehovah and the 144000. i believe jesus is my mediator even if i am not one of the 144000. .

  elder: may jehovah open your mind and heart.

  me: may he open everyone's mind and heart.

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  leaving_quietly

  @paradisebeauty, I agree with you.

  From the 2 who knew the doctrine, one said that in 1 timothy 2:5 it's written: Jesus is mediator between God and us, - by us, meaning the anointed ones, since the letter to Timothy was written by Paul.

  This is ultimately the only way JWs can defend their belief in anointed / non-anointed... by saying parts of the Bible were written only for the anointed. Nearly every doctrine unique to JWs is affected by this and this is their scapegoat. I like to say, "if that's the case, then ONLY the anointed should preach, and ONLY the anointed should go to meetings. After all, Jesus commissioned his 11 apostles to preach, not all of his disciples and Hebrews was written specifically to the Jewish (Hebrew) Christians, who, according to the organization, were all anointed in the first century." No one likes hearing that, but it does uncover their deceitful logic on the subject.
  
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  7

  is there a new anouncment the person has been removed instead of no longer a witness

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  someone reported to me they changed announcent but he is hard of hearing and i was not present anyone hear this?

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  leaving_quietly

  According to recently revised Organized to do Jehovah's Will book, the announcement is the same:

  p. 141:
  

  When it is necessary to disfellowship an unrepentant
  wrongdoer from the congregation, a brief announcement
  is made, stating: “[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s
  Witnesses.”
  
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  50

  An Atheist Visits A Kingdom Hall

  by Bangalore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://nerdinthebrain.com/2015/01/25/why-i-spent-my-morning-in-a-kingdom-hall-partying-with-jehovahs-witnesses/.

  he seems to have quite a positive view of jw's.. bangalore.

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  leaving_quietly

  @Nerd, your article was enlightening. Great to see it from a perspective of an outsider. I'm not personally an embittered JW. I didn't have the bad experiences that many here have had, fortunately, so I don't share the same views. My opinion is that, doctrinally, JWs have many things wrong. I grew up as a JW, so never really questioned what I was taught until a few years ago when one of the major doctrines changed for the third time since I was baptized. After trying to follow the logic they presented as to why their current interpretation is correct, I found I couldn't believe it. But that raised more questions: what about other things that they teach that is unique to this particular religion? Can they be proven from the Bible? That was a thread I tugged on, and found that many things that are taught as doctrine are contrary to what the Bible actually says. JWs are very good at cherry picking verses that seem to support a doctrine, but very much ignore other verses that don't. I have found this all in my own research.

  That this religion claims to be directed by God, and in its own pages has stated that the things it teaches are FROM God, that forced me to question the validity of that claim. Why would God teach something as "true", then turn around in a few years and make that same teaching false?

  My issues with the JW religion are mostly doctrinal. This religion allows you to question things to a point, but there's a fine line that cannot be crossed. A non-JW can question as much as they'd like, but there are limits to how much a baptized JW can question.
  

  You were fortunate to be able to freely visit a Kingdom Hall. In the JW religion, if a JW were to visit another religion's church for services (not counting weddings or funerals), if found out, they would likely be brought before a judicial committee (a religious tribunal) and possibly disfellowshipped (excommunicated). It may even be considered an automatic disassociation, which has the same results as disfellowshipping... immediate shunning from JW friends and family. Therefore, no JW can visit another church for services, even out of curiosity. Thus, if one has doctrinal questions or misgivings, they are generally told to "wait on Jehovah," which, for all intents and purposes, means to wait until an article is published in a Watchtower or some other book or brochure that addresses the question or misgiving, which may be never, or at least, not to one's satisfaction.

  While the religion encourages personal study, coming up with answers that are different than what the organization publishes and trying to tell others what you've found is a big no-no. It's considered apostasy. In some cases, some have been disfellowshipped because they adamantly disagree with certain key doctrines. Others have decided to keep quite and leave the organization, but in doing so, they are considered by other JWs as "spiritually weak."

  So, while JWs do have a good way of life on the surface, there are certain policies that make it very challenging if you are one who thinks about things and has questions. In that case, one has to simply suffer in silence. In my case, it has caused a HUGE rift in my marriage and talking about anything biblical is taboo in the home. My JW wife refuses to have any open discussion because sometimes what I bring out from the Bible differs from what is taught by the religion. This is a major stress on the marriage. I am not the only one in this situation, either. This same story has been told countless times by people here, many of whom are still active JWs. This particular forum is an outlet for our frustrations because, well, no one else is willing to listen.

  Thanks for your blog post. It was enjoyable for me to read.

  ~LQ
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  38

  Kenneth Flodin: ‘This Generation Will ... Not Pass Away’ (Matt. 24:34)

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbpbb5k_mc

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  leaving_quietly

  I knew this person many years ago and he was a fabulous speaker then. Not sure what happened. Nerves from being in front of a camera? Not quite sure of the material himself? Not sure.

  Anyway, there is still another hole in the logic. He used Matt 24:32 to indicate it wasn't the "wicked" generation that Jesus referred to. There it uses the term "you" to indicate that Jesus was talking to his disciples. The logic then goes that in the very next version Jesus was "evidently" talking about his anointed disciples. Here is the hole in that logic: If that were the case, Jesus would have said, "your generation." But he didn't. Instead, he said, "this generation." There was no indication that the term generation applied to either his disciples or the wicked. Just "this."
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  41

  Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

  by nmthinker in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.

  during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.

  i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .

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  leaving_quietly

  The title of the 2015 article is "Loyally Supporting Christs' Brothers" and calls for loyalty throughout. The final sentence in the article says, "Therefore, now is the time for those who hope to be judged as sheep to support Christ’s brothers loyally."

  Christ said nothing about loyalty. Loyalty is very, very different than feeding, clothing, being hospitable and visiting someone in prison. If I give some money to a homeless person, that does NOT mean I'm being loyal. If I give a stranger a glass of water, that does NOT mean I'm being loyal. (Matt 10:42) Loyalty implies something very different than just helping someone out when they're in need. The WT organization completely misses this point, yet it's the very point made throughout the scriptures. Even Paul recognized this.
  

  "For the law code, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not covet,” and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.”" - Romans 13:9