kepler

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Posts by kepler

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  20

  The Great Pyramid and the Flood of Noah

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the great pyramid and the flood of noah.

  _________________________________if your world view rests firmly upon the foundation of bible accuracy matching the reality of history, sooner or later you’ll crash into the question of when the great pyramid was built.why?let’s see why…2 peter 3:5-6 complete jewish bible (cjb).

  5 but, wanting so much to be right about this, they overlook the fact that it was by god’s word that long ago there were heavens, and there was land which arose out of water and existed between the waters, 6 and that by means of these things the world of that time was flooded with water and destroyed.________________________________________________.

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  kepler

  Wake Me Up:

  Interesting comparison of two illustrations. For my part I notice that the text is in Arabic and that the illustration is a mirror image of the previous one ( I hesitate to say original). Since the scale of the image is larger, the tyrannosaurus is not only drowning but also cropped off the page. Consequently not a single scale (?) is visible.

  Terry:

  Somehow the Owen Gingrich account makes a lot of sense. Previously readings about the Great Pyramid, I would encounter discussions about passages supposedly built to allow a particular star to light a chamber at a given angle... Then I'd get stuck. What the blazes are they talking about - and especially with precession of the polar axis in the celestial sphere? And what kind of illumination are you going to get anyway?
  

  This Gingrich discussion, so to speak, turns the tables.

  To put it another way, we are at this epoch blessed with having a pole star setting atop the North Pole. Or wherever you are located in the northern hemisphere, above the horizon there is a star that remains fixed in the sky all night and all the other constellations revolve around it: Polaris. If it's 45 degrees above the north horizon, you are at 45 north latitude - and so forth.

  And the Egyptians of the third millenium BC did not have this. They had something else, evidently, a North-South notch of two stars.

  So navigation must have deteriorated between intervals such as this. Yet Ptolemy did a heck of a lot to fix this problem with the Almagest compilation of celestial knowledge.

  Another matter: the name of Egypt. In Arabic Egypt is known as Misra, but in coptic it is known as kimi. If you further back the transliterations are a little more obscure:

  kmt, and upper and lower Egypt along the Nile as t3 šmʕw and t3 mḥw respectively.

  I would conclude that the Arabic word might be derived from the Hebrew, but the Egyptians had a name for their home that had little or nothing to do with the origin of the Hebrew word.

  But then it should be noted that Polaris will slip out of position as the North Pole Star to return again just as it did after a 25,000 year cycle. And that opens up a whole new can of worms about dating things based on a host of ad hoc and cultic arguments...
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  18

  Kingdom Halls open to hurricane flood victims??

  by Sugar Shane in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  there are other threads dealing with jws actions, or non-actions in response to the houston flooding.

  i started this thread to find out specifically if kingdom halls, or assembly halls are being used to help victims.

  not just other jws, but innocent victims of all walks: men, women, children & pets.

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  kepler

  Well, I'm not a Mormon, but I found this easy.
  

  I thought I had heard something about their activity during the storm.

  Here's an article I located.

  http://blog.chron.com/mormonvoice/2013/08/mormons-aid-community-in-helping-homeless-veterans/

  So who is left?
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  13

  The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jws advise that we should not take this illustration as literal saying things such as heaven and hell are not in close proximity so that both the inmates can speak to each other, dipping the tip of one’s finger in water would not be enough to put off one’s thirst …etc.. interestingly, jesus himself did not want his listeners to take this illustration literally or figuratively because he mixed both, hence wanted to get the message typical of any story.

  if we were to take the illustration figuratively, who do “dogs that came and licked sores of lazar” symbolize?

  also, the rich man in the story makes a powerful point when he says: ‘if someone from the dead is resurrected and speaks his surviving family members on earth, they will repent.’ (luke 16:27-31) the powerful logic used in this argument is to be literal, can’t be figurative because it concerns about literal death of a person and his resurrection.. those who are concerned about determining whether this illustration is literal or figurative miss the simple message of this story: god plays no role in the affairs of man and everyone can learn from experience (own or from others) that there is sowing and reaping, hence everyone is free to choose his destiny..

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  kepler

  Taking guidance from the WatchTower or JW publcations on a matter like this is much like

  the conversation between Alice (through the Looking Glass) and Humpty-Dumpty in chapter 6.

  You could take almost any segment of the narrative and contemplate it in a JW context.

  Consider this exchange:

  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  

  'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

  Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

  'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

  'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

  'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

  'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

  Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they're the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

  ok.'

  ----------------------------------------------

  Get the picture. Literally -er maybe Figuratively. Great illustrations Tenniel.

  But let us continue.

  ------------------

  'Would you tell me please,' said Alice, 'what that means?'

  'Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. 'I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'

  'That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

  'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I always pay it extra.'

  'Oh!' said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark.

  'Ah, you should see 'em come round me of a Saturday night,' Humpty Dumpty went on, wagging his head gravely from side to side, 'for to get their wages, you know.'

  (Alice didn't venture to ask what he paid them with; and so you see I can't tell you.)

  'You seem very clever at explaining words, Sir,' said Alice. 'Would you kindly tell me the meaning of the poem called "Jabberwocky"?'

  'Let's hear it,' said Humpty Dumpty. 'I can explain all the poems that ever were invented — and a good many that haven't been invented just yet.'

  This sounded very hopeful, so Alice repeated the first verse:

  ''Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
  All mimsy were the borogoves,
  And the mome raths outgrabe.'
  

  'That's enough to begin with,' Humpty Dumpty interrupted: 'there are plenty of hard words there. "Brillig" means four o'clock in the afternoon — the time when you begin broiling things for dinner.'

  'That'll do very well,' said Alice: 'and "slithy"?'

  'Well, "slithy" means "lithe and slimy". "Lithe" is the same as "active". You see it's like a portmanteau — there are two meanings packed up into one word.'

  'I see it now,' Alice remarked thoughtfully: 'and what are "toves"?'

  

  'Well, "toves" are something like badgers — they're something like lizards — and they're something like corkscrews.'

  'They must be very curious-looking creatures.'

  'They are that,' said Humpty Dumpty; 'also they make their nests under sun-dials — also they live on cheese.'

  'And what's to "gyre" and to "gimble"?'

  'To "gyre" is to go round and round like a gyroscope. To "gimble" is to make holes like a gimlet.'

  'And "the wabe" is the grass-plot round a sun-dial, I suppose?' said Alice, surprised at her own ingenuity.

  
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  25

  The "Jesus is Michael" teaching soon to go?

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  could the teaching that jesus is michael the archangel, be soon to be discarded?

  first of all, watchtower is big on image and this is one of those teachings that paint the jw religion as being rather kooky and heretical.

  secondly, this teaching is not an original watchtower teaching but one they inherited from their second adventist ancestry.

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  kepler

  Regarding that "return to Jehovah" note above:

  My experience about 7 or 8 years ago was something akin to that. Consequently I attempted to accommodate my girl firend at the time by taking instruction and was introduced to the "What the Bible Really Teaches" pamphlet.

  It was clear enough what JWs thought of Trinitarians, but it was unclear what they were advocating about Michael the Archangel. It seemed like his equating to Jesus was a matter to be dealt with in the appendix, supported mainly by three or four New Testament quotes, observations about army organizations and the notion that the voice of Jesus would be like a trumpet, hence...

  My instructors who came to the house on Saturday morning had no comment on the matter at all.

  I felt like I was being solicited to join the Albanian communist party.
  
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  77

  North Korea threatening to bomb Guam...

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  crazy kim again....could happen?

  thoughts?.

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  kepler

  Noticed that some of my Dispensationally minded correspondents feel a frustration or disappointment that this issue is not about the Israel, Palestine etc. I guess some people want to have Armageddon on their own terms.

  However, from another standpoint, obviously three generations of NK leaders invested a great deal in delivery systems for nuclear weapons and the current heir to the throne is anxious to show them off. Beside that, KJU and

  staff have shown considerable skill in creeping up to the limits of tolerance. Groups that launch sanctions tell him to stop or else there will be consequences. KJU orders a lofted trajectory for an ICBM into the Sea of Japan. The test data are in before anyone knows what to do. It suggests that there is anticipation of the

  other side's next move.

  What is worrying though, is that at some point this strategy will make a big mistake and initiate a terrible but logical response. Will it be with missiles aimed at Guam? Will they really be warheads? Can they be stopped with anti-missile defenses? If they're live and kill people, what then? In a situation like that, you could well expect that the response forces are already on ready alert.
  
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  3

  Broadcast on BBC News Service to America: Heart & Soul, "Witness Protection"

  by kepler in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sorry about the delay on this, but about a week ago (sunday night?

  ) at 11:30 central daylight savings time in the us, the bbc news service broadcast provided an in-depth discussion of witness policy, law-suits and criminal proceedings in matters of child abuse, logs of incidents not shared with local authorities and disfellowships.

  it was practically the sort of story that many correspondents on this forum have waited years to hear.

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  kepler

  Sorry about the delay on this, but about a week ago (Sunday night?) at 11:30 central daylight savings time in the US, the BBC news service broadcast provided an in-depth discussion of Witness policy, law-suits and criminal proceedings in matters of child abuse, logs of incidents not shared with local authorities and disfellowships. It was practically the sort of story that many correspondents on this forum have waited years to hear.

  www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p056p7wg

  The above is a direct link to the website in which a podcast of the broadcast is available. Heart and Soul is a series

  of BBC broadcasts on religious matters world wide.

  I am surprised that I didn't see anyone else post on this topic. I was delayed because I was logged off and had some

  difficulty locating my password.
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  Broadcast on BBC News Service to America: Heart & Soul, Witness Protection

  by kepler in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sorry about the delay on this, but about a week ago (sunday night?

  ) at 11:30 central daylight savings time in the us, the bbc news service broadcast provided an in-depth discussion of witness policy, law-suits and criminal proceedings in matters of child abuse, logs of incidents not shared with local authorities and disfellowships.

  it was practically the sort of story that many correspondents on this forum have waited years to hear.

• 

  kepler

  Sorry about the delay on this, but about a week ago (Sunday night?) at 11:30 central daylight savings time in the US, the BBC news service broadcast provided an in-depth discussion of Witness policy, law-suits and criminal proceedings in matters of child abuse, logs of incidents not shared with local authorities and disfellowships. It was practically the sort of story that many correspondents on this forum have waited years to hear.

  www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p056p7wg

  The above is a direct link to the website in which a podcast of the broadcast is available. Heart and Soul is a series

  of BBC broadcasts on religious matters world wide.
  

  I am surprised that I didn't see anyone else post on this topic. I was delayed because I was logged off and had some

  difficulty locating my password.
  
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  32

  You may not have read the Apologist version of 607 b.c.e.

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jerusalem 607 bce vindicatedapostates and other opposers argue that jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 bce, but in 587 bce, and provide what they claim is archaeological evidence to support this.

  read this chapter.... 5: servitude to the king of babylon for 70 years?.

  read this chapter.... 9: the 70 years for tyre.

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  kepler

  A number of non-JW analysts, Christian and Jewish, connect the 70 year interval with the 586 destruction to the breaking ground(circa 516 BC) for the 2nd Temple.

  It is interesting that Jeremiah's words sound a great deal like Isaiah's in the early chapters.

  As for Daniel: "Darius, son of Xerxes ( a Mede by descent)" must have read his Greek historians - after the Persian and Peloponnesian Wars. Both Herodotus and Thucydides called Persians "Medes" in Greek, if not in English translations. Now check when Xerxes reigned and who attempted to bring such desolation to Athens in the 5th century BC. Then if this Darius is the son of Xerxes, then he reigned at least a century after Cyrus: 423 to 405 BC.
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  32

  You may not have read the Apologist version of 607 b.c.e.

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jerusalem 607 bce vindicatedapostates and other opposers argue that jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 bce, but in 587 bce, and provide what they claim is archaeological evidence to support this.

  read this chapter.... 5: servitude to the king of babylon for 70 years?.

  read this chapter.... 9: the 70 years for tyre.

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  kepler

  Right, "Gentile times".

  The term is used by English translators for the Hebrew גוי‎ (goy) and נכרי‎ (nokhri) in the Hebrew Bible and the Greek word ἔθνη (éthnē) in the New Testament. The term "gentiles" is derived from Latin, used for contextual translation, and not an original Hebrew or Greek word from the Bible.

  If the Bible is inerrant, then its translators inferences from it stand on feet of clay.

  Furthermore, seventy years was applied to a desolation even earlier: Sennacherib to the devastation he wrought on Babylon. Esarhaddon reversed it on a subsequent cuneiform post. In other words, the concept is borrowed from Assyrians.
  
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  46

  THIS MAN proved that God exists and he did it effortlessly!

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  meet a really smart fellow named anselm 1043--1109 a.d.. .

  he was elected abbot in lombardy in 1078 a.d.. .

  that than which nothing greater can be thought exists in the understanding.

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  kepler

  If there is no higher consciousness in this universe than our own, then how is it that ours so spontaneously came into existence?

  It didn't. Consciousness is the product of brains. And brains are the product of billions of years of evolution. There's nothing "spontaneous" about it.

  Perhaps an argument could be made that God intervened in the evolutionary process and bestowed consciousness on man?

  But why would we resort to supernatural explanations at all? It's ok that there are things we still don't know. Maybe it will be solved in our lifetime; maybe not. There is a lot that is known about the brain that was mysterious just a few decades ago.

  Every mystery ever solved so far has turned not to be magic.

  -----------------------------

  With regard to the above:
  

  It's not that I have never invoked physical and natural explanations for phenomena encountered - or have never defended them. I've done so on occasion on this forum. But I think (sic) that our thought processes and awareness of them pose problems for natural science that have never been fully resolved - and they have been lurking for at least the time that Descartes first submitted his proposition.

  Descartes evidently is no longer with his, but he once existed ( Cogito, ergo sum ... ergo erat), But since he ceased and all manner of mass, energy, moment and other measures in this universe are conserved, where did he go? Where did he come from when he came into this world. Is there a supply of that essence from which he came? Is it unique to us on this earth - or do we share it with cats and dogs? Does it exist elsewhere in this cosmic domain?

  Newtonian physics is description of the interaction of two or more masses, but it does NOT explain how there can be interaction at a distance. Genetics and evolution, sad to say, do not explain this either. General relativity takes Newtonian physics to the next level, but it has its rough edges too in unification....

  But I am starting to digress. The device I write this reply on has many so-called intelligent features, but it is not sentient in the same manner as you or I. Passing a Turing test does not assure sentience or awareness - only that the coder of the algorithm is clever enough to fool someone in conversation on a telephone line.

  You can observe this essence in many ways. Clip your nails and you are not at loss. Yes, it resides in the head and brain in some fashion - just as a CPU resides in my laptop, but there is something more to it than simply code. Roger Penrose, I suspect, in "The Emperor's New Mind" seems to suggest that we will find some exotic particle in physics to explain our phenomenon, but I doubt it.

  The simplest Occam's razor style answer I can think of is that there is something about consciousness that points to more than simply our own. If eukaryotic cells are a stretch from prokaryotic, then consciousness is orders of magnitude more. Unless there was a head start somewhere.