Notice how all the old ideas begin with something like "we used to believe . . ."
When, in fact, all these ideas were dictated by the WT, for all readers to accept without question.
Posts by Bobcat
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60NINE REVERSALS IN JULY 15TH WATCHTOWER
by The Searcher inhere's what i scavenged from the most notable watchtower i've ever read.
it may be far more significant than many people realise!.
and before anyone whinges that one or two are 'old light', the fact remains that all of them are rejecting what was once 'inspired truth' from the revered fds, and disagreeing with any one of these (now current) falsehoods would have resulted in your "stoning to death" and shunning by all whom you loved.
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Jehovah's Witnesses: If the 144,000 were not defiled by women, does that not make them ALL men?
by I_love_Jeff inand unmarried, of course, since they are all virgins?.
since you are taking this all literally, perhaps you need to re-read the verses carefully.
if parts of this verse are to be taken figuratively then how do you determine the number, 144,000 to be literal?.
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Bobcat
I posted some research about this on this thread.
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Bobcat
Page 6, par. 11
. . . Through Jehovah's organization, you are invited to expand your ministry in some way. Perhaps you are asked to move to a territory where there is an urgent need for more preachers, . . .
This was a curious way of putting this idea: "Perhaps you are asked to move to a territory . . ."
I wonder how intentional was this wording? Most times people volunteer to 'move where the need is great,' after becoming aware of the 'need.'
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Bobcat
Page 10, par. 5, footnote.
It reads:
The expression "the founding of the world" involves the idea of casting down seed, suggesting procreation, so it has to do with the earliest human offspring. Why, though, did Jesus connect Abel with "the founding of the world" and not Cain, who was the first such offspring? Cain's decisions and actions amounted to a willful rebellion against Jehovah God. Like his parents, Cain does not appear to be in line for resurrection and redemption.
[End of quote]
Ah! Shades of Sodom and Gomorrah. Will they be resurrected or won't they. I'm really surprised they haven't learned from this. But I digress.
Is Abel really associated with the "foundation of the world," as opposed to Cain? Here is a brief 'word study" of the term "foundation" (katabole, Strong's # 2602) as it relates to the "world" (kosmos).
It occurs in:
Mat 13:35 Quote from Ps 78:2, "long ago"
Mat 25:34 Kingdom prepared from. Would seem to associate with Gen 3:15, before Cain or Abel.
Luk 11:50 Footnote is based on this verse.
But the verse is talking about martyrs (Abel being the first), not who was first in "the founding of the world."
Jhn 17:24 Jesus loved by Father before the "founding of the world."
Eph 1:4 Christians foreordained before the founding of the world. Also seems to be linked to Gen 3:15.
At any rate, that would place "before the founding of the world" prior to either Cain or Abel.
Heb 4:3 Places "founding of the world after Adam & Eve created, but before children arrived.
Heb 9:26 Links "founding of the world" with introduction of sin.
1Pe 1:20 Also seems to be an allusion to Gen 3:15, as a point in time "before the founding of the world."
Rev 13:8, 17:8 with reference to the "scroll of life . . . from the founding of the world."
Incidentally, I analysed the 'scrolls of life' verses mentioned in Revelation here.
A comparison of these verses, none of them link Abel (as opposed to Cain) as the specific starting point of "the founding of the world." Luke 11:50, the only one that mentions Abel, only mentions him as one who was killed near "the founding of the world," not as the starting point for it.
Both BDAG and AMG's Greek-English Dictionary associate "founding" with the word "beginning." (BDAG also has some extra-Biblical examples linking it to the idea of "beginning.") None of the verses above give enough information that would allow a person to reasonably associate "the founding of the world" with Abel, as opposed to Cain.
Without predicting whether Cain would be resurrected or not, a counter argument could be mounted via John 5:28, 29, which describes those in the "memorial tombs" as including "those who practiced vile things." (The Society holds that these "vile things" get practised after they are resurrected. The verb tenses in the verses argue otherwise, that is, before they are resurrected.)
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Bobcat
Page 4, par. 3:
"Of course, at the time of the resurrection of . . . the righteous." that kind of rewarding relationship will be fully possible. (Acts 24:15)
This sentence caught my attention because it seems to refer to the resurrection as a future event. The reason this is interesting to me is because it was Paul saying this, and prefacing it with the words, "I (i. e. Paul) have hope towards God 'that there will be this resurrection of righteous and unrighteous.'
Paul seems to include himself as hoping to benefit from this resurrection. Yet Paul believed he would be in heaven with Christ. WT dogma holds that this part of the resurrection (the heavenly one) has already begun. So it is curious that they ignore this aspect of Acts 24:15.
I've mentioned this before and only got puzzled faces. It seems (at least to me) that the WT wants to reserve Acts 24:15 solely for an earthly resurrection.
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Bobcat
Various already existing links regarding the Imitate Their Faith book:
PDF download via Sendspace. See here.
Cover art. See here.
Brief synopsis. See here.
Referring to Abraham as Abram. See here.
Page 21: Reference to Noah's Ark. See here.
Searcher:
I'm approaching it with caution. I don't want to be negative for no reason. There may be some good points in it. And there are a lot worse things that someone could write about. But there seems to also be a good bit of speculation in the book being passed off as solid fact. I'll have some examples in the next few posts. (And I'm just in the first few pages!)
Take Care
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Bobcat
Narc:
For some reason, your graphic reminds me of Metro Man from the Megamind movie. (One of my favorite movies!)
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Bobcat
Page 4, par. 3
"The apostle Paul offers this practical answer . . . (Heb 6:12)"
Throughout this, and indeed, all WT pubs, "the apostle Paul" is attributed authorship of the book of Hebrews.
This is interesting because there is no agreement by scholars, ancient or modern, regarding who was the writer of Hebrews. The book itself does not identify the writer. Various possibilities proffered include Paul, Luke, Barnabas, as well as others. Some have strong opinions about their preferred choice, as does the WT.
I used to give the elders strained faces by always prefacing my comments on the book of Hebrews with, "The anonymous writer of Hebrews said . . . ."
What I was saying (about its authorship) was absolutely true. Neither did it dispute the possibility that Paul may have written it. Yet it would fly in the face of the publications that would always, unequivically, attribute Hebrews to Paul. It was one of my ways of 'rebuking' the WT. It was also a way of saying, 'Your conclusions are not necessarily mine.'
There is an amount of hypocrisy in the WT's stance on the writer of the book of Hebrews. If one were to openly speak of the names of the translators of the NWT, the Society would be affronted by it. They insist that they wanted to be anonymous. (Unfortunately, Ray Franz spilled the beans, and the writers's names are now public.) Yet the WT insists on identifying the writer of Hebrews whenever they cite the book. Why do they not respect the writer of Hebrews right to remain anonymous?
[Compare Acts 23:1, 2, NWT:
Looking intently at the San′he·drin Paul said: “Men, brothers, I have behaved before God with a perfectly clear conscience down to this day.” 2 At this the high priest An·a·ni′as ordered those standing by him to strike him on the mouth.
Paul's saying that nothing about acting as a Christian bothered his conscience was a backward way of condemning the Sanhedrin which opposed Christianity.]
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Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments
by Bobcat inthis thread is similarly purposed to this one on the jeremiah book.. i intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new imitate their faith book that came out at the 2013 wt district convention.. eventually, the book is going to be studied at the congregation book study.
(the book itself says so.
see the letter from the governing body, par.
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Bobcat
This thread is similarly purposed to this one on the Jeremiah Book.
I intend it as a source for material and comments relating to the new Imitate Their Faith Book that came out at the 2013 WT District Convention.
Eventually, the book is going to be studied at the Congregation Book Study. (The book itself says so. See the letter from the Governing Body, par. 4) So this thread should serve as a handy reference and links to other threads that discuss this.
For ease of reference, if anyone posts specific material here (or links to it), if you could put the chapter and/or page number and paragraph as the first line in your post.
Many lurkers peruse here without ever posting. It may help them to develop their thinking abilities if they see reasoned consideration and comments on the material in the book.
