God did - Collosians 1:15
Posts by Bobcat
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8Who made the first image ?
by fulltimestudent in.
this week the focus of my byzantium studies is the iconophile/iconoclast quarrel, when people could be bashed etc for having the wrong belief.. one of the things i have to do is discuss the arguements used by each side, and i was intrigued (amused) by an argument used by st.john of damascus.. he asks the question: " who first made images?".
what's your answer?.
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33
A Different View of "Peace and Security"
by Bobcat insince the wt this week has the prediction of a "peace and security" event, i thought i would include a comment from the new american commentary (nac, d. michael martin, pp.159-60) on 1 thessalonians 5:2, 3.. here is the wt's position, according to this week's wt study (sep 2012 study edition, pp.3 4):.
1 th 5:2, 3 is a "future development.".
it happens "just before that day of jehovah.".
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Bobcat
Splash:
Actually, the NWT is based on a variant reading of the text. The idea in the variant is that, just as the thief is overtaken by daylight (in the sense of losing his cover), those who aren't prepared are overtaken by "that day."
The NICNT-Thessalonians commentary (Leon Morris, pp. 154-55) has a writeup about the variant reading, but definitely prefers the reading that most translations have. (See examples here.) It does acknowledge, though, that "many scholars accept" the rendering that the NWT has.
If the NWT rendering were the preferred reading, it would present a strange shift in focus. The earlier verses depict the believer and unbeliever facing the problem of the unexpected thief. Then verse four suddenly presenting the problem the thief has. Thus, your point is well thought out.
At any rate, thanks for pointing this out.
Take Care
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293
AGM 5 OCTOBER 2013 (UNOFFICIAL RUMORS)
by WatchTower87 in- 23 day to go .. annual meeting unofficial rumors.
- new bible.
- new nwt (revision).
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33
A Different View of "Peace and Security"
by Bobcat insince the wt this week has the prediction of a "peace and security" event, i thought i would include a comment from the new american commentary (nac, d. michael martin, pp.159-60) on 1 thessalonians 5:2, 3.. here is the wt's position, according to this week's wt study (sep 2012 study edition, pp.3 4):.
1 th 5:2, 3 is a "future development.".
it happens "just before that day of jehovah.".
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Bobcat
This was posted by IslandMan on this thread. It included an interesting additional take on the text of 1 Thess. 5 that I wanted to catalog on this thread. (Thanks IslandMan!)
[Start Quote]
Re: new light on 1 Thessalonians 5:3.
I think it is possible that the significance of that verse has been blown out of proportion by the GB in their thinking of it as being some announcement that would indicated destruction is near.
1 Thessalonians 5:3 could simply be an expansion on the thought mentioned in verse 2: "that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night". In other words, the writer, after saying that Jehovah's day is coming as a thief in the night explains the significance of the statement by saying that it would take people by surprise when they feel secure and at peace. The writer could be in effect saying:
"Jehovah's day is coming as a thief in the night, i.e. it would catch the wicked off guard at a time when they feel at peace and secure - like a householder in his bed at night feeling at peace and secure when BAM! a thief comes!"
This possibility is supported by the fact that the very next verse - verse 4 - returns to the illustration of the thief:
"But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves,"
So since 1 Thessalonians 5:3 is sandwiched between 2 verses using the illustration of a thief or thieves coming suddenly in the night, it is very likely that verse 3 is simply an explanation of the significance of the illustration - that people would be caught off guard when they feel at peace and secure. 1 Thessalonians 5:3 is likely not a prophecy of some grand announcement of international proportions related to peace and security and portending imminent destruction. Significantly, no other book of the NT, in speaking about day of Jehovah, mentions anything like is stated at 1 Thessalonians 5:3.
[End Quote]
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8
Could rebaptism present a loophole for exiting without being shunned?
by Island Man inthis is how i imagine it can work: the baptized jw first gets the elders to acknowledge in written form that his previous baptism was in fact null and void.
* then later, coming close to baptism - preferably, the day of rebaptism - he changes his mind about being rebaptized (maybe he says no or remains silent when the questions are being asked, with this being video recorded).
so legally, he never was a legitimately baptized jw and therefore should not be anounced as "bro.
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Bobcat
IslandMan:
This is why they stopped asking 'if this is a re-baptism?' in the line waiting to get into the pool.
Any re-baptism is purely for your own personal feelings. It changes nothing with regards to your already existing relationship with the WT. The "vows" one says during the baptism talk and the subsequent baptism form an agreement with the Society. (Not unlike the oath one takes before joining the military, followed by stepping across a line in the floor. Only they don't tell you this beforehand. See my posts # 55 & 56 on this thread.)
You should also know that the WT views congregation elders as "independent agents." Anything the elders agree to is not binding on the WT.
The slimy WT has their tracks covered.
Take Care
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10
Annual Meeting Agenda
by Bob_NC inpresented under the guise of jehovah's progressive organization and/or speeding things up during the last days.
1. announcements about "simplifying arrangements" worldwide, consolidations, moving operations from one country to another.
a smoke screen for shutting down facilities and laying off workers.
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Bobcat
Bob:
Is this conjecture or do you have inside info?
Take Care
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293
AGM 5 OCTOBER 2013 (UNOFFICIAL RUMORS)
by WatchTower87 in- 23 day to go .. annual meeting unofficial rumors.
- new bible.
- new nwt (revision).
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30
New Bible Release At Annual Meeting
by lambsbottom intalked to a congregation literature servant's close friend today.
i asked him what he thought about the "no bibles" situation.
he said the literature servant told him that there will be a new bible released at the annual meetin.
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Bobcat
If anyone has a copy of the October 2013 public WT: Is that a picture of the new Bible on the cover? (The cover looks grey, but they way it is sitting on the table might make it only seem that way.)
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19
Boeings "Dreamliner" starting to look like a nightmare.
by Glander ini am truly surprised to see boeing trying to roll out a plane so full of bugs and flaws.
hope they can get things straightened out.
major us industry giant, lots of jobs..
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Bobcat
Prologos:
by contrast: helicopters. why do they fly? by repulsion. They are so ugly, the earth repels them.
We used to (kiddingly) say 'they beat the air into submission.'
A lot of helos are ungainly looking. But I used to think the Huey and UTTAS were beautiful, not just in shape, but in operation. There was something about the approaching beat of the teetering rotor on the UH-1 and all the rotor parts working in unison and how it hovered slightly nose up and the wide cockpit. It had a big-plane feel to it.
Also, the zero resistance feel of the hydraulic assisted controls gave the aircraft a feel as if it were an extension of yourself. You could virtually think it to do what you wanted (within the limits of the design).
Sikorsky's original "Blackhawk" (not the UH-60) was an especially beautiful machine (to me). Unfortunately the US Army never bought it.
I guess a lot of our viewpoint comes to include our experience with something (or someone), besides just the outward appearance.
Take Care
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7
The temple and heaven and earth
by Crazyguy ini read a comentary about how the jw's changed the greek word so they could claim that the great crowd are not standing before the throne in rev 7:9 but out side the inner temple and in the court yard so to speak on earth.
my question is does the bible say somewhere that the inner temple means heaven and out side the inner sanctuary is the earth?.
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Bobcat
Concerning "before" in Rev 7, I posted a thought about this here.
And in connection with naos ("temple," NWT) in Rev 7, Jhine made a good point that in Rev 11 the same word is used and the context specifically excludes the courtyards.
See my post on this page for further links to the Great Crowd and the New Covenant. The nation of Israel, based on Exodus 19:6, was to serve as a "kingdom of priests and a holy nation." This was not referring to Israel's internal priesthood or its later kings in the line of Judah. Rather, this was its role, as a nation, towards the rest of the world. (See my post # 652 here for additional about this.)
Christianity was to replace the nation of Israel in this role. Thus, the great crowd - who are Christian by the description given in Rev 7, are shown serving in the temple.
On the other hand, Israel's internal priesthood was originally to be taken from among the firstborn of all Israel. For convenience, they were instead taken from the tribe of Levi. The 144,000 of Rev 7, taken "out of" every tribe of Israel, represents a return to the original idea of them coming from out of all the tribes. They don't represent a seperate class as the WT would have it. But instead, represent a selection from among all Christians. (If Rev 6:9-11; 7:1-4; 14:1-5; and 20:4 are all related, they represent ones executed or killed. If so, there would be none of the 144,000 on hand when the GT breaks out, contra the Society.)
All Christianity serves a priestly function toward the rest of the world during this age, whereas, the 144,000 serve as an internal priesthood during the age to come.