Bobcat

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Posts by Bobcat

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  18

  The UN's motto means the END OF DAYS!! Gloom and DOOM

  by Honeybucket in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  a email has been going around the witness community explaining how prophecies are falling into place concerning the wild beast.

  aparantly the un's motto this year is "peace and security" 1 thes 5:3 "whenever it is that they are saying peace and security then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pangs of distress upon a pregnant woman aand they by no means will escape".. according to this scripture the "end" should already be here since peace and security has already been declared by the un; i do wonder if this was done on purpose as a slap in the face to wtbs, due to them gb declaring the un a wicked and destable thing.. i would love to hear your thoughts on this matter.. honeybucket.

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  Bobcat

  See this thread.
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  43

  The governing body are so scared... so very, very scared. (see video)

  by apocalypse in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

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  http://e-watchman.com/home/2012/11/11/who-really-is-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave.html.

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  Bobcat

  However, you suggest that a few FADS members being killed would be a good idea from their perspective. Somehow, I don't think they share the view that a few of them being knocked off would be welcome. How would they choose which one of them should die so that the position of the others would become stronger? I suppose they could use the tried and true method of selecting straws. But I feel strongly that the one who got the short straw would somehow feel that he.... well, got "the short straw".

  See Wars of the Jews, Book 3, Chapter 8, paragraphs 6, 7 for something similar.
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  42

  The End Of The Anglo American World Power

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-13/chinas-official-press-agency-calls-new-reserve-currency.

  china is openly calling for the end of us political and economic dominance of the world.

  they ain't playin'.

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  Bobcat

  I do not consider a war between the US and China is likely, and its hard to predict the outcome if did occurr.

  If it did . . . Given the forces currently available to both sides . . .

  The deciding factor would be where it was fought.
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  15

  "God's Word Is Beneficial..." 2013/14 Circuit Assembly "Highlights"

  by 88JM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just had the circuit assembly this weekend here:.

  surprisingly not much fuss over the new bible considering that this was the first meeting for most here to use it (the annual meeting was "invite only" for a select few here, and there was no thursday meeting because of this assembly) and having a new bible was only referred to fairly briefly in a comment about how "wonderful" it is (and in the closing prayer).

  i think i was the only one there with an old maroon nwt - i got a confused look from one of the elders - haha!

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  Bobcat

  88JM:

  Did they make any mention of 2 Cor 11:14, 15, where "transforming" has been changed to "disguising" in the new NWT? (The link shows that this rendering is hardly new.)

  We just heard from someone saying 'the DO said Satan can't "tranform" himslf, but he can "disguise" himself.' He likely got a lot of "wow"s on this stupendous new light.

  (Incidentally, BDAG gives both meanings for metaschematizo ; Strong's # 3345; And I could see where someone could be said to metaphorically 'transform' themselves.)

  Take Care
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  42

  The End Of The Anglo American World Power

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-13/chinas-official-press-agency-calls-new-reserve-currency.

  china is openly calling for the end of us political and economic dominance of the world.

  they ain't playin'.

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  Bobcat

  Incidentally, here is a thread that discussed the idea of whether there is an Anglo-American World Power.

  As someone above said, the US is itself chipping away at its dominant position by its own actions/policies. China's (and others) desire for a different world framework appears to be mostly motivated (at least on the surface) by the desire for a fairer system of economics and a more level playing field politically. None of them, not even China or Russia, is in a position to, by itself, be as dominant as the US is/has been.

  This is in contrast to the days of the Soviet Union (and the days of the Third Reich), which were vying for themselves to become the sole dominant empire.

  Any replacement of the US as the dominant "empire" will, of necessity, have to be a multi-national affair, for which the UN is probably in the best position to be used at the present.

  On a hunch, I'm going to say look for 2015 as a significant year towards this end. (Possibly sometime in February.)
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  33

  Jesus Christ is King even before 1914 so Why the Need to...

  by ProfCNJ in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  good morning folks!

  i have believed in the 1914 jw core teaching for more than 20 years.

  but now, after seeing much about this date, i find it uncomfortable and odd to believe it unquestionably, much less defend it against opposing thoughts.

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  Bobcat

  An interesting discussion in the NICNT-Matthew commentary (R. T. France, p.103-04) concerning the phrase, "the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Mt 3:2 NWT 1984-2013; Compare other translations here.):

  [Start Quote]

  But John (and Jesus) do not simply echo this [prevailing Jewish] hope of God's rule coming soon. It has already arrived; literally, it "has come near." There has been extensive debate over the significance of the choice of the verb engizo [Strong's # 1448, "neared"], and of especially its perfect tense. The present tense, engizei, would have conveyed the standard eschatalogical hope, it "is coming near," but the perfect [tense] engiken [found in Mt 3:2] suggests something more actual. That which has completed the process of "coming near" is already present, not simply still on the way. There is a suggestive parallel use of the perfect tense of the same verb in [Matthew] 26:45-46, where Jesus' declaration "the time has come near" is paralleled with the statement that the Son of Man is being betrayed (present tense), while the following declaration that the betrayer "has come near" leads into the statement that "while he was still speaking" Judas arrived. This is not the language of an event still in the future but of one now in the process of happening. In Mark 1:15 the same phrase summarizing Jesus' proclamation is balanced by the declaration (also in the perfect tense) that "the time has been fulfilled," which surely makes the sense of present reality unmistakable. But even without that supplement [i.e. Mk 1:15] Matthew's phrase is clear enough, and is further supported by the language of [Matthew chapter 3] v. 10: the ax is already placed at the root of the trees. The time of God's effective sovereignty has arrived [i.e. in John's & Jesus' day], and now is the time for decisive action in response.

  [End of Quote. All material in "[]" is Bobcat's for clarity]

  The argument presented by R. T. France supports the idea that Jesus' rule began in the 1st century.

  ****************

  The idea of Jesus beginning his rule after returning to heaven (or, conversely, after finishing his earthly mission as a human), would have an interesting effect on the explanation in Revelation of the four horseman.

  If Jesus is pictured by the rider on the white horse (and many contend with that), but assuming he is, this would locate the 'giving of the crown to the white horse rider' in 33 C.E. The events of the rest of Revelation chapter 6 would stretch out from then until sometime in the future when the events of 6:12-17 take place.

  The red horse and rider, being given a "great sword" would picture warfare over many centuries, and would include many developments in warfare, including the development of gun powder. The "black plague" (and numerous other plagues of past centuries) would be included in the description of the pale horse.

  The fifth seal (6:9-11) would explain why the wait for the end stretches out. And it would parallel the description of the 144,000 in chapter seven explaining why the end had to wait. 7:1-4 would effectively add detail that was missing from 6:9-11.

  The whole vision would have just as much meaning to the seven churches it was written to, as to any future churches. The 'wars, famines, and pestilences of Revelation chapter 6 would have a similar intent as those same things in Matthew 24. In Matthew 24 Jesus said that the wars, famines, plagues and earthquakes were NOT an indication that the end had arrived for the Jewish system.

  Similarly, from the time Jesus begins ruling (in 33) the various wars, plagues, and famines that took place in the following centuries, would also not be an indication that Jesus' parousia had arrived, even though people (at any given time) would tend to view those things as an indication of a soon to come judgment by God.

  Anyways, just postulating on the inevitable result this thread would have on the WT viewpoint.
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  33

  Jesus Christ is King even before 1914 so Why the Need to...

  by ProfCNJ in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  good morning folks!

  i have believed in the 1914 jw core teaching for more than 20 years.

  but now, after seeing much about this date, i find it uncomfortable and odd to believe it unquestionably, much less defend it against opposing thoughts.

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  Bobcat

  Splash:

  That is a good list you made. There is nothing in the context of those verses that indicates 'sitting at God's right hand' is like waithing in the reception room, waiting for a promotion of sorts.

  Instead, they all equate 'sitting at God's right hand' with the attainment of unequaled power and authority.

  I'm glad to have all these verses centrally located for future use and reference.

  Take Care

  Aurelius:

  The Society uses the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 to calculate Messiah's arrival on earth. There is divided opinion (both scholarly and here) about whether that applies to Jesus' arrival as Messiah in the 1st century (although I personally hold to that fulfillment).

  The Society uses the 7 times of Daniel to calculate the 1914 date for Jesus becoming king. This calculation was originally taken from 19th century Adventist calculations.
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  33

  Jesus Christ is King even before 1914 so Why the Need to...

  by ProfCNJ in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  good morning folks!

  i have believed in the 1914 jw core teaching for more than 20 years.

  but now, after seeing much about this date, i find it uncomfortable and odd to believe it unquestionably, much less defend it against opposing thoughts.

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  Bobcat

  Here is a list of Scriptures referring to Jesus' "presence" (parousia, Strong's # 3952)

  The connection with this thread's topic is that the WT holds that Jesus' "presence" begins with his crowning as king.

  As I posted above, the Scriptures link Jesus' ruling as king with his return to heaven. So the question here is, Does the context of the verses referring to Jesus' "presence" give any indication that it is connected with when Jesus becomes king?

  Mt 24:3 Disciples question leading to Olivet Discourse. Note that in disciples minds the parousia was related to destruction of the temple and the "conclusion of the system of things" (or "the age").

  Mt 24:27 The parousia would be something universally recognized.

  Mt 24:37, 39 Parousia illustrated with "days of Noah" (leading up to the flood) and with destruction by the flood. And with Jesus' "coming" that the disciples had to be ready for.

  1 Cor 15:23 Described as the time of the resurrection.

  1 Th 2:19 Related to Jesus' "coming" and the disciples being vindicated.

  1 Th 3:13 Described as a time when the disciples would hopefully be rewarded for their faithfulness.

  1 Th 4:15 Described as a time of being rewarded and the resurrection of dead Christians.

  1 Th 5:23 Described as a time when the disciples would hopefully have been found faithful.

  2 Th 2:1 As a time for being 'gathered to our Lord Jesus' (implying resurrection)

  2 Th 2:8 The "manifestation of his presence." A time for 'doing away with the man of lawlessness.'

  Jas 5:7, 8 The context indicates it is a time when Christians can expect to be rewarded for their "patience."

  2 Pet 1:16 Linked with Jesus' "power" and the fulfillment of prophecy.

  2 Pet 3:4 The context links it with a coming destruction by God (compared with flood of Noah).

  2 Pet 3:12 "presence of the day of the lord" (or Jehovah - NWT) Again linked with a coming destruction.

  1 Jn 2:28 Linked with a coming judgement and being rewarded if found faithful.

  In all of these verses, the idea that Jesus begins ruling or is crowned at or during his presence is missing, or has to be read into the verses.
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  17

  Six extra Jehovahs!

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the old nwt used the name jehovah 7207 times and the new nwt uses it 7213 times.. has anyone worked out where the extra jehovahs appear in the text?

  who wants to play where's wally, i mean where's jehovah?

  however there's an even bigger jump in jesuses: 940 up from 918.. satan is exactly the same at 54..

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  Bobcat

  I'm having a hard time finding 1 Samuel 6:23. The other five check out OK.

  Hold the presses! It's 1 Samuel 6:3. (not 23)
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  7

  REVISED NWT IS TRUTHFUL!

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well, in one verse at least!!

  ephesians 1:15 - "that is why i also, since i have heard of the faith you have in in the lord jesus and the love that you demonstrate for the holy ones...".

  do i hear you all shouting ' so what'?

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  Bobcat

  Searcher:

  It turns out that there are a mixture of textual readings. Three variations at least.

  Concerning the reading that the NWT is based on and is also in the KIT, Ephesians - An Exegetical Commentary (Harold W. Hoehner, p. 249) has this to say in a footnote:

  [This] reading has good Alexandrian tradition but it is limited to that text-type in both the uncials and miniscules and may well have been a result of a transcription accident (Metzger, Texual Commentary, 2nd ed., 533; cf. also Ian A. Moir, "A Mini-Guide to New Testament Criticism," BT 36 [January 1985]: 122-29). Also, internally this reading is without precedent for it would mean that Paul had heard about their "faith [exercised] toward the saints." Souter tries to get around this by translating it "faith among the saints" (Alex. Souter, "An Interpretation of Eph 1:15," ExpTim 19 [October 1907]: 44). But this is really strained to say the least.

  [End of Quote]

  A search of the WT Library only results in one reference to this verse. (w74 p. 16) And the reference doesn't capitalize on the idea of 'having faith in the holy ones.' Which is kind of surprising since the WT views "the holy ones" (i.e. "anointed Christians") as a super sub group within Christianity.

  All the same, good find. And glad to see they corrected it. The USB3 text has "kai tnv agapnv tnv eis pantas tous hagious" ("and the love the for all the holy ones")

  On the other hand, try saying you don't "have faith" in the GB and see what happens.

  Take Care

  Edited to add:

  The Reference Bible has no footnote concerning the variations. There is a cross reference to Colossians 1:4.