Bobcat

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Posts by Bobcat

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  23

  King of Jordan on Charly Rose: WW3 in progress, Islam extremism is a generational conflict. --

  by prologos in

  1. social
  2. current

  an eloquent major figure questioned, well worth listening to: on the multi continental conflict among muslims and their push against the secular world.. can be heard on you-tube.. .

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  Bobcat

  Marked
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  13

  I need a particular Watchtower photograph

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone,.

  i would like to get a better copy of the watchtower november 15th 1916 copy, where there's a picture of the flowers and everything dedicated to russell when he died.. can someone get a good scan of that?.

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  Bobcat

  ILoveTTATT:

  Here is a better version of the picture. The clarity presents a much different picture.

  Bobcat
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  7

  Matthew 24:19-21

  by Pete Zahut in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  but woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!

  and pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath for then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.. this scripture was always used to frighten us about the upcoming great tribulaton.

  when i was in high school my late mother found out she was pregnant with my youngest sister.

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  Bobcat

  Pete:

  I think the main point V is making is that the entire context of Mt 24:4-35 describes a 1st century event that was to take place within that generation. In fact it did (although Josephus' figures are sometimes questioned). Most Bible commentators take Jesus' words to have been spoken in around 30-35 AD. The initial effort by Rome to quell the Jewish uprising occurred around November 66 AD under Gallus. Then the Roman campaign against the Jews under Vespasian/Titus began in the spring of 67 AD.

  The flight described in Mt 24:16-20 pertained to that Jewish situation. Look through Revelation. There is no future flight like that described.
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  13

  I need a particular Watchtower photograph

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone,.

  i would like to get a better copy of the watchtower november 15th 1916 copy, where there's a picture of the flowers and everything dedicated to russell when he died.. can someone get a good scan of that?.

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  Bobcat

  ILoveTTATT:

  I have the picture from a PDF of that WT (it's on the last page of the 11/15 issue. Unfortunately the scan is very grainy. It is hard to make out exactly what is being depicted. If I were to guess, I would say it is Russell's draped casket, with flowers on top of it and in front of it. There appear to be at least two cross shapes, one on the draping and another in one of the flower arrangements in front of the casket.

  Having said that, the picture is still very grainy and I could be wrong that it is even depicting a casket. But that would be my best guess. You can download the 1916 WT from here to see it for yourself. You'll have to rotate the picture 90 degrees to see it upright.

  Bobcat
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  4

  Tomorrows WT

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if my dates are correct they in this article go into again the idea that jesus set up a covenant for a kingdom and again they mention how this kingdom is for just an anointed few and of course the leaders are these anointed.

  they quote luke 22:28- 30 jesus talking to just his apostles states, (niv).

  28 you are those who have stood by me in my trials.

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  Bobcat

  CrazyGuy:

  That is a very interesting verse you pointed out (Rev 20:4). The enumeration of who "reigned with Christa thousand years" is as follows:

  (1) "those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God"

  (2) and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.

  Revelation 6:9-11 has executed "souls" asking how long until justice is carried out. The response is that they have to wait "until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been." Revelation 7:1-8 then enumerates on this with the number of 144,000 (whether symbolic or literal).

  But notice who else above "reigned with Christ": "Those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands."

  In all of the other references to these things in Revelation there is no numerical limit:

  Rev 13:3-10 refers initially to 'worshiping the wild beast.'

  Rev 13:11-17 refers initially to 'worshiping the image of the beast and receiving the mark of the beast.'

  But notice who is enjoyned not to do these things:

  Rev 13:9,10, in giving warning about worshiping "the wild beast," the warning is addressed to "anyone."

  Rev 14:9-12 also gives warning: "And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath . . . and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” 12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

  As in chapter 13, it is "anyone" who is warned not to do these things.

  Rev 16:2 has the results of the "1st bowl of God's anger": "So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image."

  Here, the results of the bowl are upon "the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image" So far, there is a clear demarcation. You are either one or the other (contra the WT's idea that there are 3 parties: the 144,000 who rule, a great crowd who don't but still don't engage in the idolatry of the 3rd group).

  Rev 19:20-1 has the wild beast and the false prophet who initiated the idolatry put away, and "the rest" (contextually, those who were misled) put to the sword:

  "And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse . . ."

  Again, there is only an indication of two parties: Those who worship the beast/image, and those who don't.

  It is on the heals of these verses that Rev 20:4 speaks of those executed for their faithfulness and those who don't worship the beast/image or receive the mark who are said to 'reign with Christ for 1000 years.'

  Bobcat
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  26

  Any elders out there? How to Local needs talks work?

  by Letts Party in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  so a local needs talk was lovingly given at our hall last week that i'm positive targeted me specifically.

  it had to do with missing meetings for work.

  they even had a demo on what we should do if our boss asks us to stay overtime on a meeting night (basically say "no" and risk losing your great job which you have no desire whatsoever to lose)... so i'm aware that there's a sort of protocol the elders follow when someone in the hall needs to work on something.

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  Bobcat

  When asked, tell them you follow the same rule Bethel follows: Work assignments take precedence over meetings
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  12

  Wt today and funding special pioneers

  by Daisychaindream in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone else feel like it was just a way to beg for donations!!!.

  the society gives them a minimal wage to preach 130 hours so we should be the ones sending them money and good and clothes.

  it's not like they help the community they go to, i've known missionaries when i was younger who were in deepest darkest soith america in villages with no water, instead of passing in skills and worthwhile tools they just study then go home.

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  Bobcat

  The article is entitled, "Remember Those in the Full-Time Service."

  It would be more honest if entitled, "Remember Those We Designate as Being in Full-Time Service."

  In contrast to the WT's selective "Full-Time Service," the great crowd is described in Rev 7:15 as "rendering [God] sacred service day and night in his temple." Disciples of Jesus are described by him as those who, "disown [themselves] and pick up [their] torture stake and continually follow me."

  The whole premise of the article reeks of Luke 18:9 - "But [Jesus] spoke this illustration also to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and who considered the rest as nothing."
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  26

  Parousia (again)

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

  "the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

  i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

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  Bobcat

  Leaving:

  If I am understanding the difference you are seeing between the NWT and most other versions -

  The term "presence" in english represents a period of time. Whereas "coming" or "arrival" represents a point in time event. Thus, depending on how you choose to translate the word parousia, this will determine whether you use "at" (for a singular event) or "during" (for something happening over a period of time). The Greek preposition used before parousia is en (literally "in" or "on").

  For any interested, here is a listing of verses using the term parousia in connection with Jesus. Here is a listing of verses showing that Jesus was already considered to be ruling (i.e. the start of his rule does not correspond with his parousia).

  Bobcat
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  16

  A powerful JC recording from 1984!

  by Island Man in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this jc from 1984 features a brother and his wife, who were evidently about to be df'd for apostasy.

  but the brother knew his ttatt well.

  the elders really couldn't muster any half-way convincing arguments to refute the damning facts on 607 and 1914. even 1975 was touched on.

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  Bobcat

  marked
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  23

  Separation of the sheep and goats

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  separating of the sheep and the goats you can live forever in paradise on earth, 1982, p 183, states: since christ returned and sat down on his heavenly throne, all humankind has been on judgment... during the presentjudgment people are being separated as goats to christs left hand or as sheep to his right.. the wt of jan. 1, 1988, p 16, confirmed this: yes, all mankind is being scrutinized to see who are sheep and who are goats.... the messages are broadcast by human mouthpieces under angelic direction.

  a person is identified as a sheep or as a goat by the way he responds to the angelic messages.

  during this 20 th century, only jehovahs witnesses have cooperated with the angels in this vital work.. .

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  Bobcat

  Good post V. Marked for perusal later.

  Bobcat