Posts by Bobcat

13

Can non JWs be witnesses in a committee meeting?

by mickbobcat in

i am not sure but i know where non jws have been brought in for a witness to a judicial meeting.

what is the official policy on this?

Bobcat

I agree with nowwhat. If the elders did things according to the Society's rules, they will already have determined guilt or innocence before any JC is formed. So that the JC itself would be more akin to a sentencing hearing, where the elders are trying to determine if there is any reason for leniency. (Of course, there is an outside chance that new evidence presented during a JC might change presumed guilt to innocence. But that would be the exception rather than the rule. Any new evidence would probably be met with the elders wondering why you didn't present this evidence earlier.)

If the elders had determined that a person wasn't guilty of the alleged sin, then, there would be no JC formed. Any non-JW witnesses to the alleged 'crime' would have been heard from before the JC was formed.

And that's probably why non-JWs would most likely not be allowed into a JC. At that point they would only be seen as character witnesses. And the elders would have no use for such.

Of course, all that is assuming they were going by WT rules. That doesn't always happen. The WT and elders would probably not admit to this, but KS schools spend a lot of time dealing with JC issues where the elders didn't follow their rules.

12

What Should Have Been Their "Surname" or "Last Name"?

by titch in

ok, folks, so here's my question.

now then, assuming that you believe that there was an actual first man and a first woman, as the bible propounds, that had the name of "adam" and "eve" (as we have called them, in the english language) well, what do you think that their surname or last name would have been, or should have been?

that is, if they had surnames way back then, in the so-called "beginning" of human existence?

Bobcat

Using Luke 3:38 as the basis, in Greek Adam's full name would be, Ἀδὰμ τοῦ θεοῦ (Adam [son] of God). But in Hebrew it would be something like, 'Adam ben Elohim. Cain would be Qayin ben 'Adam.

2

Search match

by Etude in

is there a way to search topics where you and another user made comments?

i'm looking for the interaction i had with another user on several topics.. thanks.. etuce..

Bobcat

You could try a site search:

From Google type site:www.jehovahs-witness.com etude bobcat

I did get one hit with this. But when I tried a couple of other names it didn't return anything. So maybe I am missing something or need to refine the search. But it is worth a try.

45

Annual Meeting

by sove in

jw
friends

is it the annual meeting this weekend?

any insights on "new light" or new releases?.

Bobcat

They are almost through and nothing about locusts so far.

45

Annual Meeting

by sove in

jw
friends

is it the annual meeting this weekend?

any insights on "new light" or new releases?.

Bobcat

I am keeping tabs on some of the AM in this post (off-site).

8

Watchtower Admits To Using Your Family As a Pagan "Weapon" of Tyranny

by Sea Breeze in

.... just 5 years after they wrote this, they started doing what they condemned!

.

Bobcat

Here it is in PDF. It is the 1947 Awake magazine. The link should open to the correct page. Depending on your wifi speed, it may take a few seconds.

7

A Question For The Scholarly Re Gilgamesh

by jonahstourguide in

hi all.. read this article re the gilgamesh clay tablet.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-21/us-returns-gilgamesh-tablet-to-iraq/100478858.

how does it impact the dating of the biblical flood?

it seems earlier.. i am going to do some research myself to make a comparison.. it's interesting as i have not previously heard of the tablet but have heard of the.

Bobcat

Try this post (off-site). It posits a chronological model using the MT, but modified with the LXX, SP & Josephus where they differ for seven post flood patriarchs. The difference puts the flood back 650 years to 2953 BCE. (WT places the flood at 2370/69 BCE. But that is based on a 1513 BCE exodus and a 997 BCE split in the kingdom of Israel. Nor does it take into account any differences with LXX/SP/Josephus.)

The chart in the link is premised on an exodus date of 1446 BCE, and 430 years between the covenant with Abraham and the exodus. This places Jacob and his family in Egypt for 215 years (based on Ex 12:40-41 LXX/SP)

The post just before the linked one has a link to a population calculator that will allow playing with the numbers. A couple of factors that may skew the population calculator are the wider spread practice of polygamy and the longer lifespans reported in the Bible for the several centuries after the flood. These factors would tend to cause larger populations.

It is interesting how population growth is exponential in nature. Small increases in birth rates, over lengthy periods, can produce huge differences in population.

Just for some example numbers: You could start with 8 (post flood survivors), and about 400 years to the building of the tower at Babel. Or about 1500 years from the flood to the exodus. (The Torah reports roughly 600,000 grown men in the Israelite camp at the exodus.)

9

Finally, Finally, - Editorial says Jehovah’s Witnesses elder did exactly the right thing by reporting to police.

by was a new boy in

'unanswered questions — disturbing ones — surround the case of a former school health aide charged with three second-degree felony counts of molesting a child.. here’s what we know: santa fe police arrested 30-year-old robert apodaca in july over allegations he sexually abused a boy in 2019, including at the school nurse’s office at gonzales community school.. .

apodaca and the boy knew each other through the north santa fe congregation of jehovah’s witnesses.

an elder at the congregation reported apodaca to police after the family came to him in june.

Bobcat

That was my first thought also. I imagine it would never have occurred to the newspaper to ask about that.

If the elder actually did that, he would be untrustworthy as far as WT is concerned.

My second thought was that this was arranged by WT for the elder to do this for PR purposes. That is, they wait for a case with circumstances that suit the Society and then have the elder report it to police just to show that they can do that.

4

"Seven nations more populous than you are"

by FFGhost in

i wrote this up a few months ago:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5087628499091456/camp-israel-problem-pooping.

this other little nugget from deuteronomy caught my eye as well:.

Bobcat

The words rendered "populous" and "more populous" in the NWT are the same word in the Hebrew (Strong's # 7227). The word basically means "many" or "great." It is possible to understand the first occurrence in Deut 7:1 to refer to 'many nations,' or 'great nations,' rather than 'many people' (as in population).

The second occurrence of the term is rendered "more populous" in the NWT, and could also be rendered as 'great' or 'greater' or 'larger,' rather than "more populous." (See the BibleHub translation listing here.)

But even if the word is meant in reference to population, it is also possible that the writer is speaking of these seven nations as being collectively "more populous." The NAC-Deuteronomy commentary suggests that that is one way to read the text. (p.177)

That would pare down 24,000,000 to a number larger than that of Israel, but still far less than 24 million.

One other point to note: A chronology based on the MT alone places the flood at around 2303 BCE (with variations according to who you cite). But if you factor in the LXX & SP regarding the post flood patriarchs (a 650 year increase), the date of the flood becomes ~ 2953 BCE. (For example, see here.)

The reason I point that out is because if one dates Israel's entry into the promised land at 1406 BCE (as many do), that allows for roughly 1550 years of human population growth after the flood, making a promised land population in the millions quite feasible. (For example, using this calculator, and a starting population of 8, and 1550 years, and a 1.2 % growth rate, gives an ending population of nearly 57 million.)

Of course, the 1.2 % growth rate is simply a guess. Reportedly, human population rose from ~1 billion in 1800 CE to about 7.7 billion now (220 years). This is a growth rate of about .935 %. So my guess of a 1.2 % growth rate above was predicated/guesstimated on the longer post-flood life spans reported in the Bible and more prevalent polygamy. But my point is that mathematically and linguistically, it would have been quite possible for the nations of the promised land to have (collectively) outnumbered Israel, even using a 2 or 2.5 million figure for Israel when they entered the promised land.

(Using a starting population of 8, 1550 years, and 1.3 % growth rate gives an ending population of nearly 4 billion. 1.2 % gave an ending population of about 57 million. Such is the exponential nature of population growth.)

12

What do you think about Nehemia Gordon theory regarding "Yehovah" as God's name pronunciation that never got completely lost?

by psyco in

nehemia gordon, in his book "shattering the conspiracy of silence", argues that "yehovah" is god's name pronunciation and it has never got completely lost, giving a linguistic explanation.

what do you think about that?.

Bobcat

Have you read the book? If so, I was curious what you think about it.

What is the gist of his argument about the Name?

Curious posters want to know.