Posts by Nambo

78

HOW TO IDENTIFY THE TRUE RELIGION

by Fifth Column in

jesus said that the true religion would be evident in the lives of the people who practice it.

by their fruits you will recognize them, he said.

every good tree produces fine fruit.

Nambo

Nothing in your list Fifth Column about building a Golden Calf to Jehovah and attributing salvation to it, so thats the JWs out.

62

Best EZ 1 Liners to Say to Witnesses?

by LV101 in

jw
friends

any suggestions?

attending an invite (strange we're invited but hoping to make it worth my while) but i don't want to suffer big consequences as i've already said enough wrong stuff.

i'm stuck reading hassan's ccmc book (about half way --- just don't have time and not into it).

Nambo

Ask them to describe how wonderfull the 1922 assembly at Cedar Point Ohio was. (They must know, as its the fullfilment of Daniel, the best thing that will ever happen to mankind).

Or you could say, "isnt it exciting how everyones going on about this "New World Order", the Watchtower must be constanly updating you on this fullfillment of Revelation 13"

Or you could say, "Did they read John Chapter 6 at the Memorial this year?"

39

Luke 16:19-31 Sheol/Hades/Hell? literal vs. metaphor

by I_love_Jeff in

jehovah's witnesses say this is just a parable and that there is no eternal punishment.

for me, i do not believe in eternal punishment even though there is a lot of information in the bible which strongly favors eternal damnation: .

the bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following: .

I find the Christadelphians view of this as a metaphor, the following for instance, whilst not the best article of theirs on the subject, will give you an idea of where they are coming from.

The Rich Man and Lazarus

Luke 16:19-31
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

This well-known passage is misrepresented to establish the following unscriptural doctrines: the immortality of the soul, the conscious state of the dead, going to heaven or hell at death, and eternal torments. It is frequently treated as a literal narrative, but is really a parable, and if treated as a literal story is quite out of harmony with plain Bible truth. This will appear from what follows.

Christ's discourse in this place is made up of a group of parables, namely, the lost sheep, the pieces of silver, the prodigal son, the unjust steward, the rich man and Lazarus. The opening words of the last two are identical: "There was a certain rich man" (Luke 16:1,19). If the one be literal, so is the other; but nobody wants to make out that the first "rich man" and his "steward" are literal historic characters. And there is still less reason for supposing such things of the second "rich man" and "Lazarus," though there was a real literal Lazarus, whose experiences are very closely connected with the lesson Christ here taught his disciples. But if any insist that it is not a parable, they must be reminded that "Without a parable spake he not unto them" (Matt. 13:34). Also that when the disciples asked Christ "Why speakest thou unto them in parables?" (Matt. 13:10), he answered, "That seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand" (Luke 8:10). This is sufficient answer to those who say Christ would not so speak as to blind the Pharisees. He expressly said that he would blind such presumptuous sinners: "For judgment am I come ... that they which see may be made blind" (John 9:39). They praised God and declared Jesus a sinner, though they saw his miracles. The popular misinterpretation of the parable makes void the truth concerning (1) The death-state, (2) The resurrection, (3) The judgment, (4) The promises made to Abraham, (5) The punishment of the wicked.

THE DEATH-STATE.- The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is not found in the Bible, which teaches that man is mortal because of sin, and that when he is dead he is as unconscious as if he had never been born. "The dead know not anything" (Eccl. 9:5). "In death there is no remembrance of thee" (Psa. 6:5). "In that very day his thoughts perish" (Psa. 146 : 4).

THE RESURRECTION.- If the doctrine of the immortality of the soul were true there would be no need of the resurrection of the body, nor of Christ in particular. Yet we have Paul saying: "If the dead rise not ... then they which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. ... What advantageth it me if the dead rise not?" (1 Cor. 15:16-18,32); See also Phil. 3:10,11; John 6: 39. There is no future life apart from resurrection. That was how Christ entered into life eternal (Psa. 16:10,11).

THE JUDGMENT.- Men are not judged at death, but in tha resurrection. "The Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works" (Matt. 16:27). Then the wicked "shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25:31,46). Then "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye (workers of iniquity) shall see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out" (Luke 13:28).

THE PROMISES MADE TO ABRAHAM.- "To Abraham and his seed were the promises made" (Gal. 3:16). "The promise that he should be the heir of the world" (Rom. 4:13); "He sojourned in the land of promise as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob" (Heb. 11:9). "Thy land, O Immanuel" (Isa. 8:8). "The kingdoms of this world ... the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever" (Rev. 11:15). Study carefully "the gospel" that was preached to Abraham (Gal. 3:8), that is, the record of God's promises as found in the family history of Abraham in the book of Genesis. No one understanding this could possibly receive the popular interpretation of the parable in question.

THE PUNISHMENT OF THE WICKED.- Some "shall not rise" (Isa. 26:14); but shall "sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake" (Jer. 51:39). But "there shall be a resurrection ... of the unjust" (Acts 24:15); "the resurrection of condemnation" (John 5:29). They shall "awake ... to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:3). After punishment "they shall die" (Rom. 8:13); "the second death" (Rev. 21:8). "Into smoke shall they consume away" (Psa. 37:20). They "shall not be" (verse 10). These and many other similar passages illustrate the scriptural doctrine of "everlasting punishment," which is very different from "eternal torment."

A JEWISH FABLE.- Paul told Titus to rebuke the Cretans sharply that they might be sound in the faith, "not giving heed to Jewish fables" (Titus 1:14). It is one of these "Jewish fables" that Christ uses against the "covetous Pharisees" in the parable under consideration. The proof of this is to be seen in a careful comparison of Josephus' "Discourse concerning Hades" with the Bible doctrine concerning Hades, or the grave. Josephus was a Pharisee like those to whom Christ spake this parable; so his explanation of their belief is especially interesting. He says:

"Now as to Hades, wherein the souls of the righteous and unrighteous are detained, it is necessary to speak of it. Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine ... There must be in it perpetual darkness." It is "a place of custody for souls, in which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute temporary punishments, agreeable to everyone's behaviour and manners. In this region there is a certain place set apart as a lake of unquenchable fire. ... There is one descent into this region," passing the gate of which "the just are guided to the right hand, ... into a region of light ... This place we call The Bosom of Abraham. But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand ... into the neighbourhood of hell itself ... where they see the place of the fathers, and of the just (notwithstanding the 'darkness,' we note), and even hereby are punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them," so that none "can pass over it."

Every thoughtful reader will at once perceive that Christ in the parable refers to this belief - not, however, to approve it, but to condemn the Pharisees out of their own mouth. They boasted in Abraham (John 8:33-45) and Moses (John 9:29; 5:45-47). He makes Abraham and Moses condemn them (ibid). His reference to their "fable" no more commits him to a belief in it than does his reference to "Beelzebub" (Matt. 12:27), argue his belief in "The Lord of the Fly," which is the meaning of the name thus bestowed by the heathen upon an imaginary "Prince of the Demons." "Take heed (said Jesus), and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees ... of the doctrine of the Pharisees" (Matt. 16:6,12). There is much need still for "taking heed." Study carefully the Bible doctrine of Hades and you will discover that Hades is simply "the invisible," "the grave." Study also the kindred parable of Isa. 14, and how "Hell" (marg., "the grave," sheol, hades) ironically greeted the King of Babylon when he was "brought down to the sides of the pit" (verse 15). No one would attempt to literalize this passage. And it is equally impossible to literalize the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

The parable of the unjust steward was spoken to "his disciples" to inculcate wisdom among the servants of God equal to the wisdom among the servants of Mammon. Among the latter were "the Pharisees who were covetous ... and derided him" (verse 14); so he turned "unto THEM" (verse 15) and convicted them of unjust stewardship in the matters particularized, and spoke "unto them" the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The former represented "them" and their class, and the latter "his disciples" and that class. Among these last was Lazarus of Bethany, whom he actually raised "from the dead" (not from the Pharisaic "hades"), so that Lazarus afterwards "sat at the table with him" (John 12:2). "But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus to death" (verse 10). Presently Christ himself was put to death and raised again from the dead; yet the Pharisees went on boasting in Moses and rejecting Jesus, in illustration of this much misunderstood parable. And so do many in Israel unto this day.

Reproduced from: The Christadelphian Shield: Papers Explanatory of Wrested Scriptures

43

Any born-ins have this attitude about converts?

by Nambo in

so there was this great gang of us, from south london, manchester and wolverhampton, went to socialise with a group in fishguard in wales.. amongst the conversations one of the single sisters stated, "i could never marry anybody who used to be in the world".. i guess a lifetime of knocking on doors had given her the impression there couldnt possibly be a convert in her midst, never mind later alone with her in her mgb.. so whats with this, did you think we had rat scabies or were possesed by demons or something?.

.

Nambo

As for the posts regarding assumed Virginity, as a Convert my concerns were from the other direction, I worried that I would marry a born in Sister and discover that "Witness" sex was something you had to do in the dark through a hole in a sheet!

43

Any born-ins have this attitude about converts?

by Nambo in

so there was this great gang of us, from south london, manchester and wolverhampton, went to socialise with a group in fishguard in wales.. amongst the conversations one of the single sisters stated, "i could never marry anybody who used to be in the world".. i guess a lifetime of knocking on doors had given her the impression there couldnt possibly be a convert in her midst, never mind later alone with her in her mgb.. so whats with this, did you think we had rat scabies or were possesed by demons or something?.

.

Nambo

Apart from Mickeys experience, maybe its a rare thing, it was the only time I heard such a thing personally, but most would have known I was a Convert so would have been more discreet with their views, in the incident I was talking about, most would not have assumed I was a Convert.

An MGB is an old English Sportscar.

"Nambo: I live only 15 miles from there. We could have had a beer!" (Said Joe)

Hey Joe, this would have been between 1990 and 1994, age range was anything from 16 to 35 I would guess.

If you are around that age, PM me your e-mail address, and I will dig out and scan some pics of the days events, maybe you will recognise some, or might even be in one!

43

Any born-ins have this attitude about converts?

by Nambo in

so there was this great gang of us, from south london, manchester and wolverhampton, went to socialise with a group in fishguard in wales.. amongst the conversations one of the single sisters stated, "i could never marry anybody who used to be in the world".. i guess a lifetime of knocking on doors had given her the impression there couldnt possibly be a convert in her midst, never mind later alone with her in her mgb.. so whats with this, did you think we had rat scabies or were possesed by demons or something?.

.

Nambo

So there was this great gang of us, from South London, Manchester and Wolverhampton, went to socialise with a group in Fishguard in Wales.

Amongst the conversations one of the single sisters stated, "I could never marry anybody who used to be in the world".

I guess a lifetime of knocking on doors had given her the impression there couldnt possibly be a convert in her midst, never mind later alone with her in her MGB.

So whats with this, did you think we had rat scabies or were possesed by demons or something?

104

Service meeting topic: Masturbation

by perfect1 in

one of my strangest memories of going to the kh was when a young- maybe 18-20, pimply young man got up to talk about jhvhs view of masturbation during a service meeting.. of course, it was impossible to think about him not masturbating.

i was just hitting puberty and found the whole thing very uncomfortable- i think my dad was even critiquing him (what is that called when elder gives the feedback).

looking back now i can see that to publicly condemn masturbation, especially when a young man is delivering this admonition, is- well- hilarious.

Nambo

Actually oodad, I think this should be covered in the service meeting.

I got as far as Baptism before I realised I was unworthy to be a Jehovahs Witness and that Jehovah wanted me dead, followed by a number of wasted years of guilty misery.

Would have been far more honest and Christian like if the two sisters who knocked on my door, instead of showing me the Paradise booklet and asking if I would like to live there, should have had a presentation such as:-

"Hello, we see you are a single young man who must be constantly horny unless you fire off a few rounds, so we were wondering if you would like to join our religion where you are not ever allowed to masturbate"?

(Me) "er, no thanks, I think I had better pass on that"

Sisters, (one of who was rather nice indeed), well perhaps you would like to read our magazines, this one has a wonderfull article about masturbation, oh, and theres a bit about Jesus as well."

Maybe its all a deliberate plot by the Watchtower, the guiltier we feel, the more we will go on the field service to try and make up for it.?

"

30

Watchtower actually right about something!

by Nambo in

copied from an article today in "the republic" of indiana which confirms what the org had written in their blood booklet.. .

posted purely for your interest.. .

doctors find patients do better without blood transfusionsrob wennemer - pittsburgh post-gazette august 29, 2012 - 7:50 am edtaaaa recent study suggests that jehovah's witnesses are on to something.

Nambo

Nambo, in approximately the past day you have posted these:

1) - The Allies planned to starve every man woman and child in Germany to death after the end of WW2.

2) - The dinosaurs lived concurrently with humans.

Do you see my point? People become highly suspicious when truly ridiculous things are constantly posted.

But are they truly ridiculous just because they are outside the world view you have been given and want to defend in an unpleasant manner.

Point 2), I wasnt there, so only have what Iam told and see to go on, I am told they died out millions of years before man, yet I see artifacts that show this wasnt the case, the ruined temple in Cambodia for instance with the carving of a Stegosarus, as just one example, did you watch the vidieo by the way?

So, am I supposed to keep this to myself in case it upsets people like yourself who want the world to be exactly as you imagine, maybe some people here are interested in such things, why does it hurt you so much that I want to share them?

Point 1), You know nothing of history it seems, only the Victors version of the truth that we are the good guys and its everyone else that is evil, no wonder America is allmost permanantly involved in some military activity around the world.

You obviously are not aware of the Morgenthau Plan, have not heard of "The Hunger winter", or seen the documentary about the American Navy pilot Dieter Dengler who was shot down over Vietnam and relates how as a Child in post war Germany they had to eat the wallpaper from the bomb ruins, such was their hunger.

My father was there, he has told me what it was like back then, we were well off though my Grandfather would be gone for days trading items for food from distant farmers, yet you dare to say I am saying "riduculous things", just because you want to maintain your view of the world that I find quite insulting yet will try to refrain form the sort of behaviour you seem to enjoy.

Why dont you educate yourself by buying the history books I mentioned then you wouldnt look so ridiculous by ridiculing something you know nothing of.

268

WT and the Illuminati - truth or fiction?

by SnowQueen in

i've been reading around this subject of late and it seems to make a lot of sense.

i'm wondering if anyone is convinced and/or has seen anything that can substantiate or corroborate the 'facts' set out in these arguments.. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/russell.htm.

i was particularly fascinated to read the following:.

Nambo

"From what I can see, Bilderberg is not a secret group, but rather one that is invitation-only" Wrote jgnat

It is really quite recently that Bilderberg existance has been admitted mainstream, mainly due to the likes of "conspiracy theorists" such as Alex Jones bringing undeniable evidence mainstream.

Not so very long ago at all, the mere mention of the name "bilderberg" brought the usual responce from the usual suspects with their derision and tin foil hat jokes.

Now they have been exposed they like to downplay their role in shaping the world, but it cannot be denied that they are still a group of very influencial people from all corners of the world who meet together secretly to discuse things that our of mutual benifit and without the consent of the Governments they have been elected to represent.

http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm has lots of good info if interested.

In the meantime, will the mentioning of other hidden organisations that have not been exposed to the same extent, (that being finally admitted in the mainstream media), still warrant the same hostile ridicule by those who would rather the world be as they are told to belive it is, until these too become known and accepted as normal, or will people dare to learn from history and apply critical thinking?

30

Watchtower actually right about something!

by Nambo in

copied from an article today in "the republic" of indiana which confirms what the org had written in their blood booklet.. .

posted purely for your interest.. .

doctors find patients do better without blood transfusionsrob wennemer - pittsburgh post-gazette august 29, 2012 - 7:50 am edtaaaa recent study suggests that jehovah's witnesses are on to something.

Nambo

I'm sure the original poster didn't intend that at all.

"I am not so sure - I have seen the original poster make some very strange comments here and I am not at all sure they were done in jest." Wrote James Woods

Oh no, dont say Iam getting a forum stalker. or do you just like being nasty to people that dont share your world view?

Maybe the title is wrong as it can be misconstrued, the article arrived in my JW e-mail alers and as I said, I posted it purely for your interest, I wasnt saying the JW blood policy was right, just that they had made such claims in the blood booklet and for once, they seem to be supported elsewhere, which seems to be unusual.