Posts by WinstonSmith

32

JWs exposed in Norway

by InquiryMan in

during the past week, 17 different articles on various practices of jws and comments to those, have been published on the web page of the norwegian equivalent of the bbc, nrk: http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.8397366.

in addition to this a special news programme with a discussion on sexual abuse and jw was broadcast on nrk2, and p1 contained an interview with an ex-jw on its weekly news summary programme.. it seems the expose is continuing..

WinstonSmith

Norway deserves a big high five.

I hope the government enquiry into church sexual abuse gets some gears grinding here in Australia.

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

So, fellow faders, what are your plans for the next couple of weeks? Mrs Smith and I will go to our mid-week meeting this week. Then we won't attend another one until at least the week of the 7th of January. If anyone asks where we are / were, we'll just say we are / were away for the holidays. Bliss.

By the way, this weekend just gone marked 9 months since we last did door to door. We have been out one or two times a month since then, but only done very lazy return visits, and only with our very close friend Sister T.

We have made some good progress with Sister T too of late. Her horrible experience with the elders recently has certainly helped. So much so that she made the comment to us the other day that she is now convinced that Satan has infiltrated the organisation and is corrupting it, and that soon Jehovah will take steps to clean it up.

So far so good......

Read this the other day from Dr Seuss, and thought it was pretty damn awesome:

Be who you are.

Say what you feel.

Because those who mind, don't matter.

And those who matter, don't mind.

70

Reaching Loved Ones Stuck in a Cult: An Idea for Discussion

by 00DAD in

you may have heard the expression: "the map is not the territory.

" have you ever thought about how this idea may help you reach your loved ones stuck in a cult?

the phrase has been attributed to polish-american scientist and philosopher alfred korzybski.

WinstonSmith

Hey team,

I'm a bit late to the party, but here is something I have sometimes thought of doing: Saying to a JW mate "OMG have a listen to this" and then reading them the juicy parts of the letter that was sent by the Society to the German government. Of course you'd have to leave out the bits that mention JWs - but the letter lends itself to this. Follow this up with a "Wow can you believe those people said that?" Most people would be repelled by anyone supporting the ideals of the pre-war German government especially one that smacks of anti-Jewish sentiment, and I'm guessing would they likely say something like "Man what a bunch of douchebags!" This is when you go "Yeah that was written by the WTS and is recorded in the 1934 yearbook...."

I'd love to hear someone try and explain that with new light after expressing their disgust.

7

Available: "The Kingdom That Never Came" - English translation of book by Norwegian Ex-JW

by PrincessPeachz in

repost here for lurkers and newbies... if you would like a pdf copy please pm me, i have permission to distribute the english translation electronically from the author's, joseph wilting, family (my family)..

WinstonSmith

Hello everyone!

Bumping this because I got my copy yesterday and am thoroughly enjoying it. Easy to read, warm, well reasoned.

Thanks Princess :-)

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Done.

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Good call there Listener. I'm gonna do just that!

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Thanks Listener, I appreciate you taking the time to have a read through. I'm not sure she shares your sentiments, she could tell you some funny stories of our adventures ha ha ;-D

I have tried to couch things in such a way that if it was ever seen by anyone, I could honestly say "This was a private conversation with my sister. I haven't said anything anti-organisation. I've just voiced some questions that I have always wondered. I know we have to 'wait on Jehovah' and sometimes it's good to talk about it with close family."

Of course it may all blow up in my face. If it does, maybe it will expedite Mrs Smith and I out faster and more painfully than we planned.

Maybe it's worth the risk.

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Just looked at the KM for this week, and it looks like there is another money talk in the Service Meeting.

Prepare your wallets, and pack your bags - we're going on a guilt trip!

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Okay here goes...

There is of course a preamble and some personal stuff at the end, but I haven't pasted that, just the main body:

I think it sucks that you have just been left hanging like that. You should be given a clear answer so you can go on with your life. With things left up in the air, you will never truly have a settled feeling. You'll always feel like you are on tenterhooks. Please know that whatever happens, whatever eventuates, you will always have our love and support. It's funny you ask the question "Do you think Jehovah’s Witnesses have the truth?" Here is some more inside info for you: It's funny because this is one of the 'loyalty' questions that get asked by elders in a judicial committee when someone is up for apostasy. The other question that is asked is "Do you believe that the faithful and discreet slave is God's way of directing things on earth?" Both are loaded questions and the implications of answering them honestly can have devastating effects on anyone who has to answer them in front of a panel of elders. They are phrased in such a way that they require a yes or no answer. But sometimes life is not so black and white. If someone had some small questions, or even some big questions, they would have to answer honestly 'no'. To answer no to either of those questions means the end of them as a JW. The end of their relationship with their family. The end of being able to spend time with their friends. When the elders hear "no", then the case is closed in their minds. In fact even saying "Yes, but.." is taken as a no. I'm not saying this based on hearsay. I am basing this on experience.

I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions. The truth should stand up to examination. Scrutiny should be welcomed. The Bereans were praised and recorded for all time at Acts 17:11 for being studious enough to check up on what Paul was teaching to make sure it was true. Sadly I can't see that this is the case today. As I have said before, what I see time and again is not the bible being pulled out, but the Shepherd the Flock book. Do you know what the nickname for that book is? Among certain ones I spent time with at a KM school, it was called "the disfellowshipping book" because about 80% of it focuses on the various situations that might come up, and how to deal with them.

And how does one define "truth"? There is a dictionary definition of truth, but then we as JWs use this word from a slightly different angle. We use it as a catch-all for our beliefs. The reality is that this version of "truth" changes. What we believed a few years ago is quite different now. I'll give you an example:

Recently the make up of the faithful and discreet slave has changed. It used to be that the FDS was all of the anointed as a group. Now this has changed to be "From 1919 on, there has always been a small group of anointed Christians at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They have supervised our worldwide preaching work and have been directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. In recent years, that group has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses." That is a quote from jw.org . Notice that it has only been from 1919. That means that Charles Taze Russell, is no longer considered to be part of the FDS. If, at some time in the last ten years you had said to people "CTR is not part of the FDS" you would have had your mental health questioned and had the crap kicked out of you by the elders. If you stuck to that idea, despite it being based on your honest belief as a result of your research, you would have been disfellowshipped.

I'll give you an even better example:

For many years organ transplants were considered to be fine. Then, in the 1960s they were equated with cannibalism. I kid you not. Look it up. Anyone who had a transplant after that was disfellowshipped for disobedience and, can you believe it, cannibalism. Then, a few years later, it was changed again so that organ transplants were again a choice for each individual to make. I wonder how many people got disfellowshipped in that period for having transplants? Do you think they all got a call once it again became ok to have a transplant to say "sorry we disfellowshipped you because you got a transplant. It's now okay to have one. Your disfellowshipping has been rescinded"? I wonder how many people died?

I think people can be forgiven for struggling to keep up and being a human and asking questions as they try to find stable ground on which to build their faith. Jesus' disciples weren't afraid to ask questions. Thankfully Jehovah is the final judge and we render our account to him, and not to anyone else.

It totally agree with you when you say that Jehovah must look down and facepalm at some decisions. What really bothers me is the pain and anguish that comes to many people as a result of these decisions. We have pressure put on people to get X amount of field service time. We have people like our friend who sought help and got smashed as a result. We have a policy (in the secret elders book) that can directly lead to a pedophile being unknown in a congregation and free to go from door to door and associate with families and kids. In a recent WT the brothers said that they don't have divine inspiration. Yet in other articles they call themselves God's channel or spirit led. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is to be honest. It's quite confusing. They say they don't have divine inspiration, but to question anything they say is taken as disobedience to God. We spend a lot of time pointing out the inconsistencies of other religions, when in actual fact, in some areas, we are not so different from them.

The world is most definitely in a mess. Something needs to be done about it. The bible says that something will be done about it. MRS SMITH and I take great solace in just reading the scriptures. The "truth" is very simple. Love God, love your neighbour, treat others like you want to be treated. These are the three most important things that make us Christian. It is not about a thousand laws, and straining out of the gnat. It should be about love. Helping the flaxen wick. Feeling pity for those skinned and thrown about. Jesus did away with the Law and its myriad rules and replaced with a law written on our hearts. He replaced it with the simplicity of love and understanding.

I've written and re-written all of this about 20 times because I want it to come out in the right way. I have seen a lot of things with my own eyes, and heard a lot of things with my own ears, that if they were known by the general congregation populace, would cause massive upheaval. It is a heavy burden to bear. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth. What has been seen cannot be unseen. One finds it hard to look at a brother on stage giving a talk about the kindness and compassion of Jesus knowing that this same guy has mentally smashed and punched the joy out of one of his own sheep (on more than one occasion and to more than one sheep).

As a Christian, I try and look past these things. As you say, it is not possible to have a perfect organisation made up of imperfect people. But the things I am talking about are sadly not one off examples. Just in my own experience, I have seen ourselves get treated appallingly (EXAMPLE GIVEN THAT SHE IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH). I have seen you get treated terribly when you were unable to attend meetings a few years ago. I think about poor CLOSE FRIEND and what she had to go through. I think about how ANOTHER CLOSE FRIEND was treated on the way out. I think about the things I saw while serving as an elder. I think about our friend who got screwed by the Body after crying for help. I think about that sister in Mum’s congregation who was being beat up by her husband, but nothing was done about it. I think about your recent experience with the elders and the CO (the old boys club). The same things have been happening over many years to many people in many countries. We spend so much time and effort trying to make new recruits, but fail dismally on tending to the existing flock. Love is supposed to be our identifying mark, yet time and again I see people crushed and beaten down.

There is just a lot that I don't 'get'. If I'm honest, there have always been things that I have never been able to reconcile in my mind. It's weird, and I can't put my finger on it. MRS SMITH is on exactly the same page in all this. This is the most honest I have ever been about this (apart from to MRS SMITH). I can count on less than one hand the number of people I would ever feel safe enough to talk about this to - and that is not how it should be right? Like you, we feel a bit like we just have to hunker down and focus on ourselves and making ourselves better people.

Anyway, I have crapped on long enough. Hopefully none of this is too shocking for you. I don't think there is anything crazy crazy in there. Just a guy trying to figure out this thing called life. I really want to know what you mean when you say there is other stuff that you can't understand and makes you feel raped in a whole new way. I would honestly love to know how you honestly feel - with total confidentiality of course. As I said before, no matter what you say, it will always be in the strictest confidence and you will always have our complete support.

My turn: Do you think Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth?

The best thing any of us can do is read the bible, be regular in prayer and try our best to show love to all that cross our path. This I think is the essence of being a Christian. Like I said earlier, love God, love our neighbours, and treat other people like we want to be treated. Jehovah gave his Word to us for a reason. It alone should be enough to lead us and guide us, not a cold sticking to rules and procedures.

So there it is...

I would love to hear any feedback and suggestion please.

WS

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Listener, Black Sheep, and Honeybucket, thanks very much for your feedback and suggestions. I am working on the reply at the moment and am sliding in a couple of the points you have made.

Once I'm done, I will post it up and see what you think....

CHEERS :-)