Posts by WinstonSmith

26

Victoria, Australia, Newspaper article: Child in Jehovah's Witness Court Bid

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/child-in-jehovahs-witness-court-bid-20130217-2elcg.htmlchild in jehovah's witness court bid.

february 18, 2013barney zwartza traralgon child has clubbed his pocket money together with three others, paying $69.70 to launch a private criminal prosecution against the jehovah's witnesses.. the child, 11, who is due to give evidence on monday at the state inquiry into how the churches handled child sex abuse, wanted to force the church to comply with working with children laws.

after four hearings, to which church leaders did not send a representative, the church began complying and the office of public prosecutions intervened to discontinue the case.. the inquiry will also hear from anti-jehovah's witness campaigner steven unthank, a former member of the church who says he and his family were ostracised and persecuted after he tried to tackle child abuse.. his submission alleges the church and its incorporated body, the watchtower society, covered up criminal child abuse, including rape, sexual assault, death threats, blackmail and assault, across four states by ordained ministers and officers of the church.. advertisementthe victorian and civil administrative tribunal will hear a religious vilification complaint against the church by mr unthank in may, after the church said people who left the church, as he had, were ''mentally diseased''.. and the victorian health services commissioner is investigating a complaint by another former gippsland church member that a jehovah's witness chaplain was found alone without permission with a naked toddler in a room at latrobe regional hospital.. the child appearing today, who cannot be named, has asked the inquiry to determine whether the church's failure to get working with children checks between july 2008 and december 2011 amounted to criminal child abuse of all 6160 jehovah's witness children in victoria.. he asks why the government and police let the church ''get away with'' non-compliance, and whether the state will help file a class action against the church.. the submission suggests the 2000 jehovah's witnesses who worked with children were committing criminal offences each week.

WinstonSmith

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE! OI OI OI!

Read this at work today, and it made my day.

Storm's comin'

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Ooooooh the anonymity of the internet strikes again, my apologies sis!

Somewhere here on JWN I wrote a thread with a comparison between the events of Animal Farm and life as a JW. You might enjoy having a read through it.

Keep in touch !

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Hello Pickler, I appreciate you taking the time to read through. It has been quite therapeutic to write down things as they've been happening. It becomes easier to see the weird when you are putting pen to paper!

1984 was a great read, thoroughly enjoyed it. That and Animal Farm when read in the context of life as a JW are quite profound.

Stay cool bro B-)

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Oz, sorry mate, didn't see your second post!

It is a very tough road to travel, but we know that we will get there. I'm just happy and thank God, god, Jesus, Gaia, Buddha, Cthulhu, Thor, and Gandalf that Mrs Smith and I are doing this together. My heart goes out to those trying to do this with their loved one deep in the matrix.

Cheers mate appreciate your advice :-)

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

00DAD and Phizzy, thank you so much for your comments. I have always valued your opinions and advice, and in this case it is no different.

You both make good points with regards to "Why DA, just fade." You thoughts have opened up another option for us. We see the ways out as follows:

- Both DA

- Both continue to long fade

- Both become inactive straight away

- One of us DA

- One of us become inactive straight away

You are right that we have put in some hard yards to get where we are. I guess the thought of one of us DAing is coming from a desire to move things along faster and be done with it. Also a desire to not want to hear any more of that soul-grating insincere phrase "we missed you at the meeting" and the associated fake conversations that you have to put up with when you do go along. We are very happpy with where we have got ourselves with regards to the fade. This coming April it will have been one year since Mrs Smith joined me on the way out. I think as this all grinds on it wears on us. It can be tough keeping up the facade and sticking to our guns.

The other thing that plays on our mind is having to tell others, especially our close friends that one of us has DA'd. Not because we are chicken, but because we genuinely love these people and learning of this news will crush them. Of course, as we well know, while we do consider them friends, all of them (apart from Sister T) will no doubt freely cut us out of their lives like good little cultists.

Perhaps the strategy of one of us becoming inactive cold turkey is a better option as opposed to one of us DAing. It certainly warrants further thought. Simply being inactive definitely does have its advantages in both the short and the long terms.

Wise as serpents, harmless as doves.

Interestingly, I looked up the Book of Elders to refresh my memory on what it says about people who DA. Here is what it says:

Making known a firm decision to be known no longer as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

If the individual is agreeable, the committee should first try to speak with him and provide spiritual assistance. Does he really desire to disassociate himself, or does he simply no longer want to associate actively with the congregation? Is the desire to disassociate prompted by doubts or discouragement? If he is adamant in his position, he should be encouraged to put his request in writing and sign it. If he does not, then the witnesses to his request should prepare a statement for the confidential files and sign it.

- Chapter 9, paragraph 3, page 111

It then just goes on to other points where people show through their actions that they have DA'd, like having a blood transfusion or joining another religion etc.

It seems that whatever the case, avoiding back room or in house meetings with the elders must be avoided at all costs. Perhaps even avoiding having anything in writing will also mean there is no written evidence out there would be wise.

Such a shame that these people can't follow their own advice about how people should not be made to choose between their friends and their family if they have different beliefs.

21

4 more sleeps till we fly to Australia !

by Hairyhegoat in

jw
friends

just to update you all that we finally fly out to australia from the uk on the 13th.

me and sleeping beauty are getting out of the sinking ship that is the uk!.

will land in sydney on the 15th so will update you all once we get settled in.

WinstonSmith

Hey there!

That's great news, Aussie is a fantastic country. Mrs Smith and I moved here a few years ago and absolutely love it.

Hope you like prawns, barbeques, and expensive beer!

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Hiya Oz,

Thanks for taking the time to read through that! I hear you mate, we know there will be short term OMG in the congregation, Mrs Smith will get showered with affection for being in such an 'awful' situation, we will be gossiped about for a few weeks, then normal transmission will resume. Your illustration of the chickens is somewhat apt!

As for having to play by their rules, I think it is a necessary evil to have to do it. At least we are making a concious choice with a specific reason and goal in mind. While the letter will be meaningless for us, it will no doubt help them as they go through the prescribed checkbox to make sure they have followed all the unscriptural rules laid out by head office. You want a letter? Here's your stupid letter, now leave me and my wife alone.

Decisions, decisions. Gotta try and be as wise serpents and as innocent as doves.

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Since the start of 2013, Mrs Smith and I have only been to a handful of meetings. Fortunately with public holidays and annual leave it has been relatively easy to get away with it. We have only received one text querying our absence, and this was from our dear friend Sister T whom I have mentioned here before. We explained it away by saying we were on holidays, or not feeling well. Being a good friend her reply was simply "No worries, miss you guys, if you need anything give me a call and I will be happy to help." Like a normal friend, she was concerned, not that we were missing meetings, but that we were okay. She is such a sweetie.

In a later text, she mentioned that there were few people in the congregation who were wondering where we had been. I said to Mrs Smith "Isn't that typical of witnesses, they show their 'concern' for you by talking about you to others." We most definitely did not have a slew of text messages or voicemails from these so called friends who were missing us. Coincidentally, Mrs Smith had a coffee with a sister from our congregation who also mentioned that a few people had asked her where we were. This sisters reply - bless her - was "Why don't you ask them yourself, I'm sure they would love a call from you." As mentioned though, the only person who has kept in regular touch is Sister T, we have heard absolutely nothing from anyone else.

Recently at the supermarket, Mrs Smith ran into another sister from our congregation, one whose son was disfellowshipped last year. In the conversation, the sister said that her son was getting married, and had posted them an invitation. She said that they sent the invitation back with a message saying they won't be going. So cold. So harsh. This is their only son, their only child.

This week after our midweek meeting concluded one of the elders came up to where we were sitting, put one arm around me, and extended the other in handshake "Hello Winston, how's it going?" I shook his hand and said "I'm very well thanks, never better!" He then leans in with a serious look on his face and says "I was wondering if I might be able to come around and visit?" "I said what do you mean?" (knowing full well what he meant) "You mean like a shepherding call" "Yes, he said" looking at me over the top of his glasses in a you-know-what-I'm-talking-about kind of way. I looked at Mrs Smith and said in a cheery voice "No thanks,we are all good, we're fine, but thanks for asking." He seemed to go a little red and then said "Well, you know we have a program of shepherding...." and just kind of trailed off. Honestly I felt like pointing out that he was using the term 'program' in a very general sense as it is evident there is no program, but instead, I again cheerily I said "Yes I know that, I used to be an elder remember. We're fine thanks" "Well," he says "that's your decision." I looked straight at him with a big innocent smile on my face and said, "Yes I know that." All he could do was say "Okay" and then scuttled off.

Last night Mrs Smith and I had a good chat about where we are at and how things are going. While we are happy with our progress out of the cult, we are both getting more and more frustrated with wanting to just break free and be done with it. Hearing about that sisters son getting married (who was a good friend of ours) really pissed us off. Also the way the elder spoke to us, asking to come to our house when he has barely spoken three words to us in the last year, I thought was just plain rude. Why not have us over for dinner and get to know us? The mentality and bloody mindedness of JWs is downright awful.

In our conversation, we came to the realisation that given our situation, we will never be completely free of this organisation. Fading out of it here where we live will be nigh on impossible due to the relationships we have in our congregation and surrounds as a result of being an elder and traveling speaker (for public talks). Even moving to another, further away location in our city will not solve this as people know people and because of circuit and district assignments, we know people everywhere. Moving interstate could be an option but we have put a lot of hard work in to get to where we are. And to be honest we really like where we live, and my job, while it is no world changer, it is something I get a good challenge out of and most of the time enjoy. Moving interstate would mean we have to start all over again, and also would not solve how can explain away our fade from friends and family back in NZ.

Mrs Smith and I both said that we are both at the point of wanting to just disassociate ourselves and be done with it. While we are against having to write a letter and 'play by their rules' it would solve a lot of hassles, and allow us to get on with our lives. In our situation an ongoing fade, or even an immediate commencement of across the board inactivity would end up raising questions and mean that we would be cut off from being able to help certain others get out from the cult. We have made some excellent progress with Sister T for example, and know that with some more gentle prodding she may just wake up completely. We have some other friends with whom we have been sowing seeds of doubt.

So after discussing all this, Mrs Smith says "What if just one of us disassociated?"

This got us thinking. We both agreed that if we went down this path it should be me that disassociates as I am very comfortable defending my position should the need arise. Mrs Smith is happy to play the 'wife of an unbeliever' role, and in such a position might be better placed to sow seeds of doubt amongst her / our friends and maybe in some small way help them. With a disassociated hubby, she will be less likely to be questioned about missing meetings. She will be looked upon with that most unpious JW version of pity. She can then fade harder than before using me as an excuse. Yes there will be an initial storm, but we know that we have greater patience than any elder and will simply ignore their requests for meetings and explanation until they lose interest and write me off.

As we see it, the hardest part is going to be breaking the news to my Mum, my sister, and Sister T. My Mum and I have always had a good and open relationship and I honestly think that if I take the time to explain to her my reasons she would be okay with it. I have good reason to believe this that I can't share here. Of course we are not so naive as to think that the cult shutters might slam down too. Mum is a very resonable and logical person and I have mentioned in emails to her that some recent decisons and actions by the organisation and elders have left me 'uncomfortable' (I referred to but did not specifically mention the child abuse policies). My sister as you know has recently had some awful experiences with her local elders. Who knows, maybe me taking this step will help her grow the balls she needs to stand up to them and her prick of a husband and begin to lead her own life. Sister T has said on more than one occasion that "she doesn't know what she would do with out us" and "the only reason I'm in the truth is because of you" By having just me disassociate, Mrs Smith can remain in contact and ease the blow while also continuing to help Sister T (and maybe others) wake up.

So this is what we are thinking at the moment apostamates. We haven't made any concrete decisions yet. Would love to hear from you. Especially if you have been in the same or similar situation. During my time serving as an elder I never had anyone in our congregation disassociate, so am interested in hearing from people (either DAers or elders who have dealt with it) who had this experience, and am also going to look up the DA section in the Book of Elders to refresh my memory of the 'official' process.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Mr and Mrs Smith

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Yeah like I said I am not sure why that caught my eye. Maybe because in general when the WTS makes up their own photos for a mag the groups represented are generic.

Like when there is a picture of a priest, you generally can't tell whether he is Catholic, Protestant, Church of England etc etc. The Guy Fawkes mask has become a symbol of Anonymous and protest groups related to it and is a readily identifiable mark of theirs.

Or maybe its because I loooooooooove the comic that the mask comes from (and the movie)!

336

The New Diary of Winston Smith

by WinstonSmith in

we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.

fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.

i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.

WinstonSmith

Yeah like I said I am not sure why that caught my eye. Maybe because in general when the WTS makes up their own photos for a mag the groups represented are generic.

Like when there is a picture of a priest, you generally can't tell whether he is Catholic, Protestant, Church of England etc etc. The Guy Fawkes mask has become a symbol of Anonymous and protest groups related to it and is a readily identifiable mark of theirs.

Or maybe its because I loooooooooove the comic that the mask comes from (and the movie)!