Surely 'happifying' has to be in there...
Along with 'evidently'....
WinstonSmith
JoinedPosts by WinstonSmith
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20
DubYap - What is it ?
by EdenOne infrom wikidub:.
"dubyap is the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of the very special religious group known as jehovah's witnesses.
as philosopher condillac observed in 1782, "every [religion] requires a special language, because every [religion] has its own ideas ... it seems that one ought to begin by composing this language, but people begin by speaking and writing, and the language remains to be composed.
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102
Ran into a witnessing table at the park today
by confusedandalone ini just got in from my daughters homecoming(she is a cheerleader and these guys make a huge deal out of this stuff).
they play 3 football games of various age groups.
it starts at 8 in the morning and just ended at 1:30. i just got in the house literally 5 minutes ago and i had to share.
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WinstonSmith
Wow, if this is what can be called 'witnessing' now, I'm tempted to go back and be a special pioneer. Spend my days sitting around chatting with a mate at a magazine table, then get some bonus time by going home and writing a pro-jw blog. Oh the accolades I will have!
Those hard care old codgers from decades past would be turning in their overlapping graves if they knew what a farce 'witnessing' has become.
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336
The New Diary of Winston Smith
by WinstonSmith inwe had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
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WinstonSmith
I finished my last post by relating what I said to mum why I chose to DA:
“The reason that I chose to DA rather than just be inactive is because to do otherwise would mean that I would be living a lie. People would know me as a JW, JWs would consider me to be a JW while I did not consider my beliefs to align with them. Honesty comes at great cost in the organisation. Further to that, it is my firm belief that there is no scriptural basis for cutting off people who disassociate. The word and the situation are quite simply not in the bible. Again it is an arbitrary rule made up by the organisation.”
I thought, well, this is either going to make her run for the hills, or stick around and continue talking.
Thankfully, we kept talking.
In reply, she said “Thank you for stating it clearly. I am so proud of you for not living a lie, but yes honesty does come at a price. You know what is expected of JWs when it comes to those who DA or are DF’d so why were you surprised when I said I would not keep contact?”
I had been hoping she would ask me this, because I knew this was where I would have my best chance to maybe help her to see that the WTS is all about mans rules, and not about love and taking direction from the bible. I thought that if I could get her to see that there is no basis for the rule about how to treat DA people, it might be a little chip off the wall that could lead to other things falling down.
Rather than answering her I decided to see if I could get her to reason on the matter herself. I said “It used to be that people who DA'd were just treated like normal people. Like any other person that was not a JW. Then without explanation the rules were changed to be that DF and DA people were to be treated the same. Again, no scriptural basis. "It is this way because we say it is.”
I had mentioned this before in a separate conversation, and she said that she had been looking for the reference where the rule had changed but had been unable to find it. She said that she had done a lot of research on the question but could not find where she put it. I told her where the reference was and quoted it for her. She asked “So that is where the change is, but does it say why?” I said that the article gives no reason. There is no scriptural backing given for their stance. It was an arbitrary change based on nothing.
I decided to rephrase things “You have said quite a few times that cutting off someone who is DA is showing loyalty to Jehovah. Where in the bible does Jehovah say that those who DA must be cut off?”
Her answer was interesting “It doesn’t. It just says it is the same, but I can’t find the magazine that shed light on it.” She was trying to do what most JWs do and fall back on the magazines for answers so I said outright “I'm talking about the bible, not the magazines. What does the bible really teach? Nothing at all about how to treat DA people.” She had another go “I mean that it is the same in the eyes of the organisation at the moment and until I see otherwise I have to obey Jehovah. The magazine has other scriptural references.” So I said it straight again “I would love to hear what the bible says about it, not a cut and paste from a magazine. Mum trust me I have researched the poop out of this too. No matter how it is stretched the bible is silent on how to treat people who DA.”
She just said “Yes, I can see that you have done your research on this.”
I pressed on “I can't see how it would be disloyal to Jehovah to chat and have a good healthy spiritual discussion with your son. By iron, iron is sharpened. Christian unity proves itself genuine when differences of viewpoint exist but the people holding the differing view don't allow it to divide them.”
Again, she gave an interesting reply “That is exactly why I am talking to you now!” I said “ This is what I love, talking about the bible and learning. I love talking with you about stuff. Our differing beliefs are in my opinion no reason to stop talking to one another. In fact it should be a reason for us to talk more! That is how is was done in the first century. There was no formulaic process to their gatherings, they sat around and talked. I believe we are all part of a spiritual family. A bunch of people doing the best they can with what they have. Surely Jesus won't destroy someone simply for following his advice to keep on knocking?
I appreciate very much that you are here talking knowing how you feel. I hope we can continue to do so.”
Her reply gave me some hope. She said that she will be back in touch but also asked me to not be offended if she did not reply to everything I send her. I said ” I know that and respect that. I just need to know that there will not be no contact. I will still email you and text like normal, because from my point of view nothing has changed. I love you and nothing will ever change that. ”
Her response was simple: “Ditto”
So that is where we finished. Somewhere in there I also shared the article from the old 1952 magazine saying that DFing was pagan. She hadn’t heard that one before, and thought it was most interesting. I’m kicking myself though because I forgot to mention my favourite killer verse: Luke 21:8.
Oh well, maybe I will get another chance.
Who knows?
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336
The New Diary of Winston Smith
by WinstonSmith inwe had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
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WinstonSmith
Hi guys,
Thanks again for taking the time to read my ramblings!
Interesting that a couple of you have mentioned about how it is clear that the rules of men are controlling mum. Interesting because this is where I took the conversation next. I'll post up some more soon.
It's funny how when you are out you can see it all so clearly can't you? The lies from the GB, the manipulation, they way they crush peoples minds into conformity. It is sad to see people you love under control and honestly struggling between what they heart tells them and what their beloved GB tells them.
Monsieur I appreciate what you say, but mum is most certainly not thinking " why do you want me to stop being your mother?" There is a lot that I have not posted for personal reasons, and let me tell you that her love for me is unwavering. The struggle she is having is trying to figure out how she can continue to show me the love that she has but not break any rules of the org (which is in her mind synonymous with Jehovah).
She does care about what I believe, and is trying her hardest to try and understand it. The problem is she has to wade through a mire of JW programming before she can see that other people can have a different point of view.
Based on the big conversation Mrs Smith and I had earlier on in the year, I was (am) confident that over time I can reach her. This is why the message we got the other week saying she had to cut contact was such shock. It simply did not match up with anything she has said previous. And as you will see when I post the next part of the story it seems that.....well, you'll have to wait until I post it as there are some other things I need to post first.
In our conversations I can clearly see her cognitive dissonance. She is saying what she thinks she ought to be saying even though this does not align with what she quite clearly feels in heart. I think it is the first time she has ever come across someone so firm in their beliefs and she has never had to defend her faith, hence the falling back on rote answers provided by many years as a JW. It is clear when she gives an answer that the look on her face says "That's the first time I've heard myself say that out loud, and you know what it sounds ridiculous, but I have to still say it because this has to be the truth."
I hope everyone can get what I mean.
My decision to DA was all about me. I thought long and hard about what effect it would have on others. I also fully knew that it could mean that she would turn her back on me. But for me, no-one else, but for me, I had to cut ties with the organisation. That is what I had to do for me. Everyone has a different journey.
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The New Diary of Winston Smith
by WinstonSmith inwe had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
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WinstonSmith
I went on to say that the more I read the bible and the WT, the more I could see that there was often a big disparity between the two. This led me on to wondering about even bigger things: Why is the surrounding verse claimed to be figurative yet the number 144,000 is deemed to be literal? Why is it that when reading Revelation 7 that it is clear that the Great Crowd are in heaven? Why is John 10:16 used to show that there are two hopes when it clearly says that there will be two groups that become one? Why is that the Matthew 24:45-47 used as a claim that a small group of men can wield authority of 7 million people when if you read it in context it seems to be an encouragement to everyone to be faithful in what we do in this time of the end?
She then said exactly what I thought she would say: We have just had a run of WT study articles that show clearly from the scriptures that there is a precedent for a small group to be over others. She freely admitted that there are things that she questions but said that there is still enough evidence for her that Jehovah has a group of men to lead everyone. She said the WT answered a lot of questions she had.
I replied by saying that there are so many questions that I have that have never been answered. Any answers that are given are based on stretched logic and faulty reasoning. “So” I said, “Please explain the governing body thing to me be it does not, and never has made sense to me.” Sadly, her reply was classic JW: “You can look it up on the JW website” and gave me the magazine date. So I fessed up and said “I have read them already and when I read the scriptures they quote, I see no evidence to back up their claims. Especially when they are read in context.”
Her reply was that she believes that Jehovah has an organisation on earth, and even if they do things imperfectly she still believes we are in the time of the end, that Armageddon will come and people will live on earth. All of the prophecies have come true, and so will the future ones and even if I got it wrong all these years, at least I will have lived a good life with my fellow man.
I said that completely agreed with everything she said except the part about there being an organisation.
Mum then asked an honest questions: “You don’t believe in it and you feel so strongly about it that you have to DA even knowing what I have to do if you do? I can see why you are upset with the elders and congregation. I admire you for your honesty and for sticking up for what you believe in, but why not just stay inactive when you know full well that we won’t be able to have contact when you DA?”
My reply was “I don't claim to have all the answers. I don't think anyone has all the answers. No-one has a monopoly on truth. The Boreans kept searching the scriptures to check up on what Paul was telling them. Jesus said keep on knocking.”
She said she agreed, but can see nothing out in the world that she wants to be a part of. She’s happy to wait on Jehovah to sort things out. If you don’t believe then so be it, but rightly or wrongly I believe differently and I feel I have to obey Jehovah.
I thought that here I could make use of some reasoning to help her see where I was coming from. I said “I would sit at the meetings and hear them talk about verses like John 10:16 as PROOF that there are two hopes. That scriptures says nothing about here being two separate groups who stay as two separate groups. It says there are two groups that will become one group. It seems to me that Jesus was simply initmating (or maybe even prophesying) that before the the gentiles would also be included in the flock. There was the existing flock (Jews) the other sheep who became part of that flock (gentiles) and they became one flock (Christians). Hearing things being stated from the platform that are demonstrably false was something that no longer wanted to do”
I was hoping she would take a good look what I said because, in my opinion there is some clear logic right there. But she just asked “Why didn’t you ask someone about this? Or did you?”
I explained how I have researched everything to exhaustion which is why I had to come to the conclusion that I came to. I have asked friends, I have asked elders, I have even asked a CO. No-one has ever been able to answer my questions. Usually they just walk away from it because I am daring to question what the governing body have directed. And then I asked here again: “Does what I said about John 10:16 make sense? I have explained it exactly like that to lots of people and I get sideways looks and raised eyebrows and get responded with "well thats not what the society teaches"
She said that she read through it but would have to do it again later to think about it properly. I really hope she does because the way the WTS applies it is nonsensical.
I carried on “The problem I have is not necessarily the Organisation, but the way people look to them for answers and salvation. Sometimes it feels like they have forgotten that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, we access God through him, not an organisation. I think people forget that. Like their response to my questions about John 10:16 "thats not what the society teaches" It is like they are afraid to think for themselves.”
Her reply was interesting, and honest: “Yes, there are some like that, and as you say we are encouraged to look at things for ourselves, but yes, you do get looked at if you dare go against it. But I decided a while ago that whatever I think about that I cannot leave the organisation. I trust Jehovah to bring it all out in the open.”
Time for me to be honest: “You simply cannot be honest in the organisation. You cannot be honest with the elders, you cannot be honest with your brothers and sisters. This really bothered me. We are supposed to be loving kind and trustworthy (and don't get me wrong most / many are) but you cannot escape the fact that if you question the elders and / or the governing body, you are in for a bad time.”There was a pause and then she said “well that still leaves us with you DA and me not.” Which was my signal to lay it all out and see if I could get her to see the error of the WTS: “The reason that I chose to DA rather than just be inactive is because to do otherwise would mean that I would be living a lie. People would know me as a JW, JWs would consider me to be a JW while I did not consider my beliefs to align with them. Honesty comes at great cost in the organisation. Further to that, it is my firm belief that there is no scriptural basis for cutting off people who disassociate. The word and the situation are quite simply not in the bible. Again it is an arbitrary rule made up by the organisation.”
I thought, well, this is either going to make her run for the hills, or stick around and continue talking...
Sorry guys, more tomorrow, gotta go to bed. Would love to hear your thoughts on the conversation so far.
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The New Diary of Winston Smith
by WinstonSmith inwe had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
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WinstonSmith
Alrighty, so there has been a bit going on, sorry for the lack of updates…
When I left things with my last post, I had just heard from dear ol’ mumsy that she had decided to no longer have contact with me. I did not reply straight away as I had no idea what to say. After the great conversation we had had, it was a bit of a bolt out of the blue, and came as quite a shock.
A couple of days later, I had still not replied, and Mrs Smith was on Skype chatting to a friend. While chatting she noticed that a message arrived from Mum. She checked it and it said “Sorry for upsetting you guys.” Mrs Smith messaged me straight away. I thought it was odd that within three days of saying that she had decided to cut contact she was contacting us to say sorry for upsetting us. Mrs Smith, bless her heart, had an exchange with Mum that while, civil, was quite to the point. It went something along the lines of “Winston is very upset that you have decided to cut him off. He has done nothing wrong. We can’t understand why you have made this decision.” Mum replied with “Well Winston made this decision knowing full well what the consequences would be so there’s not much I can do about it.”
Again this was all done in a nice way, with no malice or fire. Mrs Smith asked her outright for an explanation, and mum gave a reply.
Anyhoo, the next day I got a text message from mum asking to catch up on Skype so she could “clear some things up.” I sent back a nice normal text saying sorry for not replying to her email yet but that I would love to have a Skype. We got together later that evening and started chatting.
She started by saying that there were lots of questions that she had wanted to ask me back when I was deciding / decided to DA, but never got the chance to. So I said “Feel free to ask me now!” First of all she got me to explain again why I had decided to DA rather than just be inactive. She wanted to know why I chose DA even knowing that it would mean no contact.
So I started off by telling her about the little things that had bothered me for years (no beards for the brothers, no pants for the sisters, and stuff like that) and how it led me to being bothered by bigger things (why field service hours are the measure of spiritual worth, sex abuse cover ups etc). I mentioned how most of the rules of the organisation are arbitrary and not based on any scriptures, and this was something that always troubled me. I talked about how when I became an elder it really became obvious that things were often by the rules of the Shepherd Book and not the bible. I gave her an example of how when a brother is considered for appointment, the first question that is asked is “What are his field service hours like?” This alway grated on me because the scriptural guidelines say nothing of the sort. Mum tried to explain it away by saying “it is a good way of seeing how faithful and reliable someone is.’ My response of “That may be so, but this is a reason why some brothers don’t get appointed yet the scriptures, which should be our guide, say nothing whatsoever about it.” caused her to pause. The scriptures are totally silent on this point, yet this is first and foremost the thing that is considered and bears the most weight in the decision.
I then began to talk about the Shepherd Book and mentioned the letter that came with it saying non-elders who bind it have to be supervised, and sisters aren’t allowed near it at all. I said how this is another rule based on nothing scriptural. She tried to bend it to be something to do with the headship arrangement, but I said the letter specifically states that the reason for this rule is because confidentiality needs to be maintained - so what, don’t they trust sisters? I thought this was an organisation of loving, trusting Christians. And besides, I said, I fail to see why the book that contains the rules for the congregation needs to be kept secret from them. Its like playing a game of football, but the referee is the only one with the rulebook, and you only know you have stuffed up when the whistle blows. Not very fair at all.
She said that sisters aren’t allowed to teach so why would let them see the book? I honestly didn’t understand this line of reasoning so just said “What on earth could be wrong with letting a sister see the book? Its not like she is going to grab it, run on stage, strongarm the speaker off and start teaching the congregation is it?”
“Okay” she said, “I’m listening.”
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The New Diary of Winston Smith
by WinstonSmith inwe had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
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WinstonSmith
Thanks for you kind words guys, it really means a lot to me. I am organising an update on things at the moment as there have been some more developments.
Just to clarify, my previous post was not related to mum at all. It was a general dig at how oh so holy the JWs in general portray themselves (and delude themselves in to thinking this is how it really is), when we all know that the congregation is full of back biters, gossips, false friends, and deception.
Life as a JW is hardly a spiritual paradise, and to be honest if life as a JW was a foregleam of what life in the new system is supposed to be like, then sign me up for the first fireball from heaven!
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A one sentence reply that could jolt a JW
by HBH inmy mind was wandering last night, and i though of this as a reply to a jw.. "oh, your the people who believe 8 men in brooklyn, ny are directing the world's only true religion.".
the sentence is a fact that they can't deny, but clearly shows delusion.
any other one sentence "stingers"?.
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WinstonSmith
"Ah yes, Jehovah's Witnesses? You believe that your governing body are the earthly representatives of Jesus right? His channel?"
"Yes"
"And since the late 1800s you have a proud history of warning people about 'the end' by giving dates and reminding them about the imminence of Armageddon?"
"Yes"
"Excellent, since you were kind enough to come to my door, and I just happen to have my bible here, let's read Luke 21:8"
"He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them."
"Tell me, how does this not apply to your organisation?"
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4 Letters from the Branch read tonight, no warning from this site
by James Jackson intonight at our meeting we had 4 letters from "the branch" read at our meeting.
i was caught off guard since we usually have an advance warning when these letters are going to be read.
is the watchtower getting better at hiding these letters?.
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WinstonSmith
Thanks for the extra info James, much appreciated and very interesting. Around a year or so ago there was a letter saying that they should not be used on the platform, one of the reasons being that some might get jealous and go into financial hardship to get one to keep up with the Jones's. I got spoken to for ignoring the advice - I thought it was a petty and controlling directive based on no common sense whatsoever.
It would appear that now they are no longer interested in 'protecting' the poor, of course we all know that was never the reason. It was always about controlling people and trying to stop them from appearing different or 'ahead' of their brothers by having new fandangle devices. Now that these devices are common, and more importantly, now that the WTS has their own apps specially designed for them, suddenly its okay for all and sundry to use them at any opportunity.
Its okay guys, we get it, you're in charge, you're the 'boss', happy now?
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4 Letters from the Branch read tonight, no warning from this site
by James Jackson intonight at our meeting we had 4 letters from "the branch" read at our meeting.
i was caught off guard since we usually have an advance warning when these letters are going to be read.
is the watchtower getting better at hiding these letters?.
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WinstonSmith
Thanks Nebeska Nada!
I wonder if they are going to finally allow them to be used on the platform?