Don't worry about the CGI folder, it is empty. I can't delete it.
As long as you see an empty folder, together with a non-accessible CGI folder, you are viewing the "original" quotes server (with all the files deleted). This means that either WTS has not done their homework to finalize the transfer of the domain, or they are simply waiting for the change to propagate.
Once the change has propagated, I assume you will see watchtower.org. Or perhaps they have some extra special campaign set up, so that you get something silly like:
"Beware: apostates had the domain until recently! If you read this site earlier, you should bleach your brain... even though it was all our stuff then too!
Once they have finalzed the domain transfer, and the changes have propagated, they will have access only to the same info they already have with watchtower.org: your IP address, and also the "referrer" (i.e. the web site you came from last, assuming you clicked a link to get there and didn't type it in the address bar or use a locally stored bookmark).
I wouldn't be too worried about it. Even if they could do something nasty, I don't think they're bright enough to execute it. I mean, they left "watchtower.ca" sitting on the shelf for me to pick up in November 2000. And I started my Quotes site in 1997, and it took them to 2005 to come after me.
These are not the sharpest knifes in the drawer... but the pictures! Look at the pretty pictures! Wouldn't you like to have a pet lion?
Posts by Quotes
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17Important Question regarding transfer of Quotes site to WTS
by inbyathread insomeone with more 'tech' knowledge needs to answer this for us.. the wt has current control of the quotes.watchtower.ca website.
if they put something on it to forward requests to view to the 'real' wt site can they look at and trace back ip addresses to us.. if it is yes then the next thing we will see is the lawyers sending lawsuits to isp's thru-out the country wanting the names of those individuals.. or am i really paranoid on this one.. let them come after me i really don't care at this point in time.
but i would rather have this happen on my timeline and not theirs.
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Quotes
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201
WTS vs Quotes: Requiem for a Research Web Site
by Quotes inin compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".
the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).
my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.
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Quotes
I just wanted to add:
Right now the WTS monitors are reading my previous post and saying "A HA!!! He admits that he is an Apostate, drawing the faithful away from Jehovah".
No, that is the wrong conclusion. To the WTS monitors, and apologists reading this, I say:
I have not drawn anyone anywhere. The writer/publisher of the material in the Quotes site, that is what as drawn them away. The responsibility lies with WTS, not with me. They flip-flopped-flip-flopped. They said that gravity doesn't exist. They said Aluminum and vaccinations will kill you. Not me.
Furthermore, leaving WTS is not the same as leaving God. The arrogance of such a statement is simply mind-boggling.
Finally, if all it takes for someone to leave WTS is to simply read WTS's own literature, then they probably didn't truly belong there in the first place. The result of my web site was simply to do the thinning and culling work that you WTS should have been doing: eliminating the people that are there under false pretences; pretences provided by WTS themselves. Those that study WTS's history, and yet remain, are too far gone and are likely much better off inside WTS (or any other High Control Group) than out on their own. -
201
WTS vs Quotes: Requiem for a Research Web Site
by Quotes inin compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".
the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).
my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.
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Quotes
Beans said it best, when he recalled that I said I would be happy if I helped just one person exit the group.
From the posts here (and from numerous PMs I have received over the past months and years), I can see that my site helped many, by simply providing information both by and about WTS. And that makes me truly happy, on this grey Christmas Eve.
Thanks for all the accolades, but I'm no hero. I'm just a guy that had an idea and a penchant for orgaznizing and classifiying information, and making it easily available. If this is all it takes to scare WTS, then they are truly in serious trouble. Their old-style business paradigm will not stand the realities of today's information age. If I could cause them trouble without even trying hard, in my spare time, imagine what will happen if a well funded group decides to pick up the cause. Imagine if the Catholic Church decides it has had enough of being criticised and maligned in the pages of WTS publications, and wants to return the favor.
~Quotes, of the "Dark" class -
201
WTS vs Quotes: Requiem for a Research Web Site
by Quotes inin compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".
the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).
my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.
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Quotes
I forgot to mention. Ken Little signed the Settlement Agreement on December 19 -- on my birthday.
Do you think Ken meant this to be a sort of birthday present?
... No, I didn't think so either.
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354
Watch Tower sues Quotes for $100,000 plus plus plus...
by Quotes incourt file no.
superior court of justice.
watchtower bible and tract society of .
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Quotes
I have started a new thread to provide an update:
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201
WTS vs Quotes: Requiem for a Research Web Site
by Quotes inin compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".
the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).
my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.
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Quotes
In compliance with the terms of a Settlement Agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark". The domain "Watchtower.ca" has been transferred to WTS (I assume they will have it pointing to
Borg.orgwatchtower.org ASAP). My copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my WT Library CD has been destroyed, in accordance with the Settlement Agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me. (Interesting aside: a discontinuance means the suit is merely in "suspended animation". It will always be there, waiting to thaw out, to haunt me for the rest of my life. It will become part of my estate after I'm gone. That's just the way it works.)The complete scan of the settlement (PDF) is available by clicking here.
It has been said that settlement negotiations are two people working toward a mutually disagreeable conclusion. Unfortunately, due to the restrictions of Paragraph 12 of the settlement, I am unable to comment on the negotiations of the settlement. However, by that same paragraph, I am able to comment on the terms of the settlement; hence I provide the details by providing the complete settlement agreement. I have nothing to hide.
Now I can put this behind me, but I am free to talk about it publicly. Of course, that will be challenging, since I agreed, as part of the settlement, to destroy all my copies of the site and also destroy my WT LIBRARY CD. But at least I will be able to tell my story. In fact, I may even write a book, or perhaps (when I dare to dream) a screenplay. I am thinking of a farcical yet fact-based comedy, with Jim Carey playing the lead. Can you imagine the high-jinx? ALLRIGHTYTHEN!
I extend my sincere and deep THANKS to everyone that offered moral support and offers of financial help.
Frequently Ask Questions
Q: Surely people here at JWD would help with legal expenses. Why did you give up so easily? I offered you money and you didn't accept it!A: I was truly thankful to the many people that offered money (and for the record, I did not accept any money from anyone). However, let me explain the magnitude of the finances involved so you can see how futile this was. Intellectual Property disputes are a specialty under the law. This is another way of saying IP lawyers charge a LOT of money. $500 per hour is the STARTING number, at the bottom of the scale. If my case went to trial, I could easily be up to $50,000 to $100,000 before ever getting in front of a judge, just with all the pre-trial motions, discovery, mandated mediation, legal research, etc. Once finally in court, costs can be $10,000 PER DAY.
If I added up all the wonderful offers of assistance, I would have, perhaps, $2,000 to $3,000. That may be enough for a simple, uncontested divorce or something, but is not nearly enough to cover my costs in this case. Also, I know that many of you, like the parable of the widow with the two coins that gave all she had, (insert groan here) were offering me money you really couldn't afford to be without. I could not in good conscience accept money from people that are themselves struggling to make ends meet.
I would ask that you instead direct your money to a much more worthy cause: Shunned Father in Calgary is suing WTS. His case is very promising. I don't know if he has completed setting up his Defence Fund, but I know that is where I am going to put my money.
Q: But if/when you win the case, you would be able to get your legal costs back by filing a claim for costs!A: True, but I would still have to come up with the money up front. Do you have $100,000? I don't. I suppose I could have 2nd mortgaged my home, or even sold it; sold my car, etc. But frankly, it likely still wouldn't have been enough. And I fully expect that WTS would have used every trick in the book to drag things out as long as possible, knowing that my funds would run out long, long before theirs. It has taken 3.5 months just to reach a "quick, give it all away" settlement. How long would it have taken if I fought them? How much would it have cost?
Q: But their case is completely without merit! Their arguments in the Statement of Claim are not even internally consistent! You didn't break any copyright laws! How can you let them get away with this B.S.??
A:
"We are not talking about 'right' and 'wrong', Arthur. We are talking about The Law" -- the lawyer on the TV show WKRP in Cincinnati
I must say, I was very naive. I felt, and still feel, that my Watch Tower Quotes web site was fully in compliance with copyright law, and therefore I felt I was safe and would be held harmless. But I was naive to think that just because I was not breaking any laws, WTS would be unable to do anything. Obviously, I overestimated their decency; or perhaps, underestimated their ability to "frame mischief by law". I felt that only radical groups like Scientology would stoop to the strong-arm tactics of a law suit. Obviously, I was wrong.
They have access to millions of dollars of cash and assets, and also have the convenience of in-house legal counsel (clothed, housed, and paid for through tax-exempt donations). IMO, WTS is 80% printing/publisher, and 20% law firm. Keep in mind, you don't have to be a very good lawyer to harass someone by launching a suit. BTW, WTS retained a TOP Intellectual Property law firm. I think, amazingly, they actually sincerely expected to litigate this. Obviously they overestimated how deep "Satan's" pockets are! I wonder if any of the tax-exempt "Katrina Relief" or "Asian Tsunami Relief" money ended up paying for lawyers, thanks to it being labelled only for the "Worldwide Work"? (I'm just speculating here.)
Q: "Quotes, I am a multi-millionaire, and I want to fund your fight."
A: Where were you 3 months ago? And do you need a resident nerd to fix your computer?
OK, seriously now. Even if this offer were made, I would still be reluctant to continue to fight WTS. Just these past 3.5 months have taken a tremendous emotional toll on both me, and (more importantly) my lovely, supportive wife. She was never a JW, and doesn't deserve to get abused by WTS persecution.
Also, this arrived when I was at a time in my life when I thought the WTS toll was entirely behind me. I was done with being an ex-JW, and was slowly becoming a regular person. I rarely updated my site, (having realized that cataloging interesting and significant WTS quotes is an ENDLESS job) and rarely posted here at JWD. Then, on Sept 8, I got punched in the stomach, when I was served.
"I tried to get out, but they kept pulling me back in!"
You have to pick your battles. And this isn't a battle I want to fight. If you have access to large amounts of money, and want to make WTS look foolish to the world by having them silence their own words, well, be my guest. More power to you. But realize you are playing in their domain, by their rules.
Q: I downloaded a copy of your site using one of the two methods you had posted. I now want to put it on my own web space. Will that hurt you? Should I do this?
A: I will not offer an opinion on this. I have destroyed all copies of my site "known to and controlled by" me. If you have a site, I don't want to know about it, and furthermore, I obviously have no control over it.
Q: But your site was such a valuable resource! It was unique in that it used primary documents, and refrained from editorializing. It was widely linked to as support for many other JW/WTS Education and Research web sites. What about that? What about the children! Did you ever stop to think about the children?A: I am truly sorry that I have been forced to remove this resource due to Watch Tower's persecution. But the world turned before my site came along, and I'm certain that it will continue to rotate now that "Quotes" is dark.
I have long felt that the most damaging, most effective tool against Watch Tower (or any other High Control Group) is to carefully and rationally study the group's words and works. WTS thrives on information control, including controlling access to their own information -- not too much, not too soon. Clearly my site struck a nerve with the old men that control WTS. Their Statement of Claim plainly stated that they feel that a collection of their own words can only have one purpose: to embarrass them. (BTW, I've never figured how they felt that, even if such a ridiculous claim were true, how it is relevant to a case of alleged copyright infringement! I didn't see any "embarrassment" clauses in the Copyright laws.)
Perhaps one day another young Jedi Paduan, or old Jedi Master, will pick up the torch. The funny thing about squishing Cockroaches is they seem to be able to reproduce faster than you can squish them. You don't have to worry about the one you just squished, you have to worry about the 10,000 offspring hatching under the cupboard.
Finally, since I am certain that my posts here are monitored to ensure my ongoing compliance with the terms of the Settlement Agreement, I would like to offer the following lyrics, in a gesture of, frankly, legitimate Copyright Violation. You know, if you're going to do the time, you might as well do the crime.
Of course I've heard this song many times before, but when I heard it a couple of days ago, I immediately thought of the following people, and it is to these people I
would like to dedicate this little ditty:- Ken Little (President of WTS Canada, and signatory to the Settlement Agreement)
- Glen How, O.C., Q.C., L.S.M., (and personal friend of my mother since her first days in Canada)
- John Burns, LL.B.
- David Gnam, CGA, LL.B. (and as the CGA, likely the only person who REALLY knows how much money they have, at least in Canada)
- Shane H. Brady, LL.B. (and CBBE: Cinnamon Bun Baker Extraordinaire!)
- ...and all the other (Ken) Little people, the cleaners, the drywallers, the plumbers, the floor refinishers, order desk clerks, and the rest of the Nowhere Men who become pseudo-important -- albeit dysfunctional -- elders within the confines of The Watch Tower Society... men that fight to protect their little fiefdom with all the sincerity of a September 11th Terrorist.
He's a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?Nowhere man, please listen,
You don't know what you're missing,
Nowhere man, the world is at your command.He's as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere man can you see me at all?Nowhere man, don't worry,
Take your time, don't hurry,
Leave it all 'till somebody else
Lends you a hand.Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?Nowhere man, please listen,
You don't know what you're missing,
Nowhere man, the world is at your command.He's a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.~Quotes, of the "Once I Had A Web Site, Made it Run On Time... Brother, Can You Spare A Dime?" class
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22
C'mon Watchtower: How long will the Blood brochure stay online?
by Neo inhi wt monitors!
i think you've noticed you'll be experiencing some ugly times in the near future.
soooo, with about 40 pages of exposure of your lies and misrepresentations in a law journal read by experts all over the globe, with an internet-based dissemination work force that will spread the news to tens of thousands of other people, how long will you leave the how can blood save your life brochure on watchtower.org?.
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Quotes
Regarding whether it can be *proved* there was intentional misrepresentation, surely their deceptive OUT OF CONTEXT quoting, which completely reverses the thought of the original writers, is evidence of intentional misrepresentation.
Unless they expect jurors to believe that when they researched the quotes, they somehow managed to NOT read the surrounding sentences in the source material. Not bloodly likely, IMO.
Bad publiciy aside, I think this is a problem for Witch Power. This won't happen overnight, but it will happen. It will cost them. A suitably prepared class action suit could bankrupt them. -
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THE NEWS IS BIGGER THAN DATELINE, BBC, CBC, ETC.
by AndersonsInfo inif i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
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Quotes
Wow. After all these years of us knowing they were misrepresnting bastards, someone has finally figured out a way to prove it in court.
This is MUCH BETTER than I ever imagined. I apologize for my earlier skeptical post. This won't affect current membership (any more than any other scandal) but that is not the important thing. This goes right to the jugular: WTS lies and the thousands of people that are dead as a result, and the serious poetential for compensatory and punitive damages for their tortuous acts. As someone who is on the other side of that "gun", I can't begin to express how wonderful this news sounds to my ears.
Now, we just need to hope that there are enough surviving relatives (that are no longer Watchtowerites and can/will sue) that can use this appropriately.
Yes, WTS, payback is, indeed, a Bitch.
Could this end the WTS? Depends how deep their pockets are (yes, I know, they are pretty deep), how many lawsuits get launched, and how large the settlements are. My hunch is that it has the possibility of bankrupting them. At least I can dream. Hey, how about a CLASS ACTION? That way the victim families are working together and pooling resources, not chipping away at the Monolith individually.
This Journal was clearly written for an American audience; I wonder how much of this can assist ShunnedFather in Calgary?
~Quotes, of the "happy dreams tonight" class -
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Dateline
by deeskis ini've been reading many of the posts on the site for the last few weeks.
i wasn't looking for a jw site but came across it by chance on a google search for australian music, when one of tijkmo's posts came up.
my eyes nearly popped out of my head when i saw the jw chat!!!
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Quotes
deeskis, welcome to the forum!
deeskis said "also told my parents about the UN debacle(this afternoon), and they just outright denied it. "not true, lies being spread by apostates""
My immedate response to reading your words here: They are at "Stage One" right now.
At the risk of generalizing, I thing most of us here have experienced that reaction first hand. INITIAL DENIAL. Interesting that the implication is that if it were true, they feel it would "discredit" WTS.
But, if/when you can later manage to present them with the overwhelming evidence that this *IS* true, then they will get to what I like to call "Stage Two": "It is really no big deal, it doesn't matter, it is insignificant". Apparently when at "Stage Two" they forget how the felt when they were at "Stage One": that this is very "descrediting" news.
Have some fun: write down on a piece of paper how they currently believe that this news (if true) is discrediting. Then write down how you predict they will happily accept the situation and no longer see any "discredit" later. Don't show you folks the letter, but put in a sealed envelope and tell them you are playing a game and ask them to sign and date the envelope. Then put the evelope away somewhere safe.
Then, later, after they have progrossed to Stage Two (as a result of seeing overwhelming and irrefutable proof), produce the envelope, open it in front of them, and show how you accurately predicted they would happily swallow this once damning situation.
Oh, this is only fun if you enjoy angry outbursts driven by cognitive dissonance.
~Quotes
P.S. Ifyou really want to have fun, after producing the envelope, state that you have the power of prophecy! :) -
38
Do you think this is for real
by skyman ina few weeks ago a man that live near my house wrecked his car and was killed about 5:45 am.
the mans friend my partner in business was at my house at 6:00 the go hunting on my place.
after he went hunting he left to find what had happened to his friend because he had not shown up.
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Quotes
Q: Do you think this is for real?
A: No.
Q: But what if it were for real?
A: Knowing that deceased friends and relatives could magically appear anytime, anywhere, and observe me would greatly and negatively impact my sexual libido. Knowing that possibly millions of dead relatives are watching? Can you say "performance anxiety!" My modesty would dictate I remain celibate forevermore. I don't think my wife would be happy with the situation.
Oh, my modesty would also dictate that I start taking showers wearing my bathing suit, although I haven't yet figured out how I'll change into my bathing suit and still preserve my dignity and privacy.
~Quotes
P.S. I know some of you will think I'm being flip, but I'm not.