Posts by Quotes

23

Most unhypocritical religion which one?

by haujobbz in

jw
friends

think about it when you chose to become a jw why did you choose that belief.. was it because you witnessed there good works or there following the scriptures closely or even there so called similarity to 1st century christians.. when i think about it, i didnt really witness these things it was the books i studied which told me this because if i had really looked closely at the activities and jw roots i would of realised they werent the pure religion they claimed to be.now i think about it why didnt i take my study more serious not just reading what the jws gave me but looking to outside sources for more information, im really gutted i didnt do this now.

i mean did i look at other beliefs to see how they functioned nope i just believed the books i studied and that was it and i thought i wasnt gullible.. so now in the situation most of us are in today if you were to look at most religious christian beliefs today which would you say follows the bible closely and imitates the 1st century christians the closest,sticks to gods and christ teachings closely.

also have any of you thought about joining another faith and which one?

Quotes

Well, if asking this question, why limit it to just those that "follow the Bible"? Why follow any supposedly "holy" book?

Secular Humanism:

Objectives

-		To promote education, understanding and development of the principles of Humanism;
-		To defend and promote policies and practices consistent with these principles;
-		To provide opportunities for Humanist service, study and socializing;
-		To lend assistance to other organizations when their objectives coincide with ours;
-		To offer and provide members and non-members with meaningful, dignified ceremonies, free of supernatural implications, at significant times such as marriage and death.

I am not involved with Humanism, but they do have a website: http://www.humanists.net/

24

OK.. I am done.... can't take any more...

by animal in

jw
friends

thats right.... i am finally done with my 1947 harley chopper.... 3 years of building has come to an end.

you thought i was leaving here?

hehe.

Quotes

Nice job animal! Very cool. I'll bet it sounds as solid as it looks!

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

Words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or phrase
He's right. We have words for "don't-calls", sheep, lamb, pioneer, Bethel, etc. In fact, my engineering degree, by this guy's definition is a cult certificate. We say capacitor, induction, Faraday effect, Miller effect, feedback loop, oscilloscope, tank circuit, and on and on. We electrical engineers are a cult ! Holy cow!
NO! Words represent concepts. We witnesses deal with concepts that the general world isn't interested in. Yes we have a jargon. It's verbal short cuts, but it is not thought-stopping.

Again, remember that this is only ONE factor. An engineering degree does not fit the other "Lifton" requirements.

Furthermore, there is a HUGE difference between a "technical" words that are not part of vernacular, but are part of a widely accepted and dependable branch of sciene and technology (like the Elec Eng words your friend used) and REDEFINING EVERYDAY words and phrases with esoteric meanings understood only to the initiated. Furthermore, engineering words seek to explain concepts (as your friend stated) whereas cultic "language loading" seeks to further the agendas of the group, especially the dichotomy and seperation between those inside the group and those "in the world".

P.S. I am disappointed that your friend is an engineer and is still so blinded. My engineering degree taught me to think analytically, which was my first step on the road to escape from the WT

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

Ties in with the process of confession -- one must confess when one is not conforming
TO HIMSELF, then to God. We don't run to the elders for absolution.

There was a time when those practising the "evil" of oral sex were told to report it to the elder's. Of course, elder's don't grant absolution, that would require the application of forgiveness of sins, which a tennent of Christianity, therefore outside the JWs procedures

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

Psychologists use this to probe their patients. Parents use it to help instruct their children ("You did WHAT? HOW could you? I raised you better than that! Say you are sorry! NOW!!") Is this author saying that my mom was a bad person, a cult leader ??

It depends on the degree and extent of control. Some parent/child relationships are very cultish. I suppose some therapis/patient relationships could fall into the same boat, depending on the degree and extent of control.

Note that your friend is not denying the allegation, but rather saying that if others use the same technique (to any degree, even a small one???!!!) they are a cult too, therefore Lifton's argument is false.

Remember, it is a question of extend and degree of control on this topic; also one must consider the whole, with Lifton's other points as well. Then one can decide which end of the "cult meter" a group is at!

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

NO! One must continue to work on himself. The 'norm' here NEVER changes.

Then why does the kingdom song admonish JWs to "keep in step with present truth".

The norm does change, here are some examples:

smoking was a matter of conscience; now it is a greivous sin
innoculations were useless and a violation of God' law; now they are helpful and OK
The Great Pyriamid was "God's Stone Witness"; now it is "The Devil's Bible"
Aluminum cookware was dangerous; now... who cares about cookware???!!!
blood factors were not OK; now they are OK
a raped woman that didn't scream is guilty of fornication; now she is a victim and not a fornicator
Christmas celebrations were OK and bible students were told to "not quible abou the date" (i.e. even if Dec 25 is incorrect); now Christmas is a big sin
Party cards are a big sin in Malawi, but buying Miliary Service "cartillas" are OK in Mexico -- AT THE SAME TIME, mind you!
We were told Jahs organziation doesn't solicit donations; now we DO!
We are God's Prohpet... later, we never said we are a prophet!
Oral sex within marriage was bad, wrong, evil and the elder's policed the bedrooms; now it is still evil but we don't want to know about it anymore

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

Deception? No, I have never found any here inside. I have found that, as the society honestly warned me, that all men are imperfect and sometimes it shows up at critical times.

Well, there is the recent case of J. R. Brown deceiving... whoops, should I say "being imperfect" while interviewed by a New York radio station: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/spokesman.htm

Come on! Was it an honest mistake for him, as official spokesman, to say "voting is a matter of conscience"???? That is a deliberately deceptive statement! Attributing it to "imperfection" is quite a stretch.

Then there is the case of the "Blood in Bulgaria" where the Society's lawyers agreed that blood transfusions are a matter of conscience! Again, a lie! Read all about it at http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/euro_blood.htm

There is a huge difference between DECEPTION and IMPERFECTION. If your friend can't tell the difference, he may be a lost cause.

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

Do we individual witnesses act like 'pawns'? Does Jehovah give us hard and fast RULES which we have to obey exactly -- or does he give us broad principles (and explains the important reasons for those principles) and then sets us free to use our own talent and ability and decisions.

I would have to say "hard and fast rules". These have been nicely summarized for use by the police/judge/executioner... whoops.... I mean elder's, in the Pay Attention book. Perhaps that is why the WT keeps it hidden: so people like your friend can claim that those rules don't exist.

The light of the internet keeps getting brighter and brighter: learn about the Pay Attention book here: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/pay_attention.htm

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

Use your noggin. The Jamestown suicide was a CONTROLLED community. They drank the cyanide-Kool-Aid AT GUNPOINT. The vast tropical forest insured no escape from the camp. The society does NOT control us !!!! We don't live in communes.

Your friend should not comment on subjects he is not familiar with. Jamestown victims DRANK VOLUNTARILY (with a few possible exceptions). That's right, they drank, of their own volition, the poison. Does that mean they were not a cult? Could Jones defend the action (if he were alive) by saying "those people drank on their own, I didn't hold a gun to their head"???? That would be true, but it would not reduce the fact that their thinking process was warped by the cultish environment.

As for escape, I saw something on A&E about a few escapees. But that point is off-topic.

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

Quotes

Which one of these ways mentioned does the society use? NONE. Look, we are in the world, work in it, live in it, go out in service in it, visit our worldly family members in it, LIVE in it, etc. Where are we prevented, physically prevented and isolated? Where, David, where?

As I pointed out in that other "Cult" thread, your friend would have to admit that Bethelites are living is a compound-like existence. Of course, R&F members are also mentally seperated from reality by not have any social interaction with non-members and being told to shun the world and the things in it. The segregation is mental... but is still present.