Posts by Realist

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

So you're saying that I can "claim" to be Jewish and that would be sufficient for you to be pissed off by me (especially if I joined an already disproportionate government)?

again, you attack something i never said. i have no problem with jewish people (i have probably more jewish friends than you). I have a problem with them holding an extremely unproportional amount of power.

Nor was my nation involved even indirectly in attempts to selectively inbreed

both our nations have enough skeletons in the closet.

You know fine that I'm talking about genetics and heredity, here, a conversation which you were happy to engage in.

as a geneticist i have indeed no problem talking about human genetics or traits. however, in this context you were repeatedly referring to 'blood' and i answered repeatedly that the genetic factor is irrelevant.

So you can't go by surname, then?

a) that only someone born from a jewish mother is considered a jew is the religous definition as far as i know. it reflects the desire of the religous leaders to keep the group seperated from others - an essential factor when trying to keep identity outside your homeland.

b) in many cases the name can be misleading of course.

Are you also saying that if they can trace their mom's female line back to Israel, even if no other genetic factor has included the Jewish genepool, that you'd still take issue with them taking office?

what exactly is your argument here?

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

You were quite happy to take up the banner of blood, until you realised that the tide wasn't going your way, because the counter-argument to that one is compelling.

are you going insane? it was you who talked about blood issue.

my only respons to this was:

btw the 30% is not meant to be the "blood" percentage just the amount of people with german decent (it is unknown to me to what extend they are mixtures with other ethnic groups).

jews are a quite diverse genetic group with very different genetic/ethnic backgrounds (semitic from the middle east, various european ethnicities as these were forced to convert in the middle ages, a few black people, mixtures from interethnic marriages).

jews by the definition of jews are those born from a jewish mother. jewish imo are all those viewing themselves as jewish and identifying with jews as a group.

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

Narkissos,

great post.

I for one don't think you have Nazi leanings (I may be mistaken) but you do belong to a country which took an active part in the 3rd Reich yet deemed itself collectively innocent for that because of the Anschluss

absolutely correct. i critisised this about austria in a previous thread.

Perhaps the shoah should not have become a historical taboo.

it is one without question.

But here we are, and perhaps only a Jew can make effective political criticism regarding the "exploitation of the Shoah" (as Yehudi Menuhin did).

finkelstein wrote an excellent book about the holocaust industry and the exploitation of the topic. had this been written by a none jew it would probably have caused an outcry.

Certainly not an Austrian or even a French.

the problem is that by silencing ourselves we allow the exploitation of the topic (which aside from the fact that it is expensive financially due to still running reparations it also allows israeli human rights violations).

I fully understand that this is a sensitive topic with people who lost relatives due to nazi murders. however some 50 to 60 million people were killed in the war and it is absolutely legitimate to debate these numbers and aspects of their death. for instance the number of russian victims can be discussed without moral outcry so can be the number of victims from carped bombings.

sensitivity is ok ... banning any debate about the subject and calling everyone who dares to state legitimate doubts about some aspects as nazis is not.

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

But I'm guessing the Germanic descendants are likely disproportionate, too

i stated that before.

how many of them are actually pure-blooded Jews, regardless of their claims and surname?

this is irrelevant as the only important feature is the association with the group. "pure blooded" as you state is in this context nonesensical anyway as jews do not form a homogenous genetic group.

I'm surprised you cannot see this

i am not stating what you try to reject.

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

sorry i misunderstood you statement then:

The premise is also moot if they are of Germanic descent to a greater quantity than 30%

the president is a single figure and thus cannot be - from an ethnic or religious point of view - representative of the population.

if you have a group of lets say 100 people the situation is different...the prob that a minority of say 5% contributes 50 people in this group is minute.

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

not really as it depends on how they are recognized. if they view themselves as jewish then the argument is valid (similar to fraternity members).

btw the 30% is not meant to be the 'blood' percentage just the amount of people with german decent (it is unknown to me to what extend they are mixtures with other ethnic groups).

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

indeed the premise is moot if they are in fact not jewish and do not consider themselfs as such.

mary,

the conversation with you is pointless.

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

good argument. the question is do these people view themselfs as jews or not (and are they recognized as such). if you can show that several of the people on the list should in fact not be considered jewish than i will gladly change my standpoint on the issue.

mary,

you stated 1.1 million as a factual number. it is not, the numbers are estimates. thats the important issue. even the official auschwitz number varies between 700.000 and 1.5 million (4 million previously). it is sad that you cannot grasp that argument.

pole,

No American-Jewish lobby delegates? How's that, Realist?

do they need to? it seems not.

big tex,

what exactly is a racist post? that 50% of clinton's staff were jewish and that this is overproportional?

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

little toe,

sorry missed your post! :)

As compared to Germaniacs, who nearly wiped out Europe

hmmm are you trying to disprove one of abbadons assumptions? :)

So what's the proportion of Germaniacs in congress, as compared to the general poulation?

do you mean people with german origins or germanic (including scandinavians etc.)

as far as i know people from german decent make up the largest group in the US with about 80 million (not sure how mixing with other groups was taken into account...heard this a couple of years ago on a US TV program). in the perfect world they should therefore hold about 80/280 = ~30% of the decision making positions. since latinos, blacks and several other minorities hold virtually no important positions this percentage is most likely inflated.

197

The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

this week in uk, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50.

personally, i do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like shindler's list or the pianist.

Realist

Mary,

LOL

you are clueless.

you believe the numbers are based on list kept by the nazis. this alone shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

today official auschwitz death count estimates vary between some 700.000 and 1.5 million killed (original estimates were 4 million officially revised a couple of years ago). this includes jews, russians, poles, gypsies, political prisoners.