well i am a geneticist...so i know what i am talking about. the only point where creationists can try to question evolution is the 'creation' of the first cell. as i said before...so far only some steps have been simulated in the lab...so you can still adhere to your religious view that God created the first cell by hand.
Realist
JoinedPosts by Realist
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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Realist
thichi,
my god ...is it that complicated? the only argument against evolution is that the probability that a self replicating system formed by itself is too small. and this argument is based on WRONG calculations.
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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Realist
thichi,
once again...it is pointless to calculate numbers since we don't have the equations to do it! do you get the point???
ros,
a question...would you consider the idea that the world rests on a gigantic turtle as naive? i hope so!
it is not different with biblical (or any other) creationism. to think that God created everything the way it is today is totally absurd. it contradicts scientific findings in every field and as if this wouldn't be enough ...have you ever noticed that the world is not perfect??? how do you explain this if God created the world already formed? why is there so much shit going on in this universe? so much destruction, death, suffering? where is this God? you would have to assume that he is obviously either incompetent or he gives a shit... and do me a favor and don't explain suffernig with the original sin caused by bad bad humans. otherwise i would like to hear your explaination why suddenly super nova started to happen, asteroids start to hit the earth, earthquakes and volcanos etc. happened, why animals became carnivores etc.etc.etc.
it simply doesn'T make ANY sense and it makes God (if he exists) look like a total ass. if he is that incompetent and ignorant than i think we have no reason to worship him.
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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Realist
thichi,
i think you misunderstood my point. hoyle made these calculations disregarding many importnat mechanisms. for instance what is the chance that out of the over 100 different chemical substances 4 different ones come together and form a nucleotide? if you just calculate this probability disregarding the chemical/physical laws that cause the formation of the nucleotide how meaningfull is that calculation? if you do the calculation disregarding the chemical rules and the availability of the different chemical substances you will come up with very weird statistical results.
matter has a tendency to form complex structures...as long as we don'T understand what amino acids prefer to bond and what nucleotides prefer to bond etc. it is pointless to calculate any probabilities.
Edited by - realist on 5 November 2002 19:35:6
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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Realist
thichi,
there a couple of things i would like to mention:
a) life didn't start out by suddenly forming a cell. it started with self replicating molecules. the system got more and more complex with time. you don't need 200 proteins assembling at the same time. you need only one self replicating molecule. self replicating RNA molecules of up to 40 bases were already created in lab experiments.
b) your calculations are further bogus since certain peptide bonds are far more frequently formed than others. these frequently formed bonds are still present in todays proteins (by the way further supporting the scientific view). so since we don't know all the 'rules' with which peptides form it is pointless to do statistical calculations in the first place.
c) evolution as the mechanism producing new species is proven beyond any doubt. so even if it won't be possible to reproduce all the steps that led to the formation of the cell doesn't mean evolution is false. therefore as long as not proven otherwise you can choose to believe that the first cell was put here by God or whatever miraculous force...but does that give us any new insight in how the universe works? why are you against considering the possibility that it is a inherent property of matter to form complex structures? why don't you consider the possibility that God created the universe in a way that everything assempled by itself? wouldn't that be a far more elegant way to do things?
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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Realist
ros,
its great if a person can combine a naive idea such as creationism with a scientific mind and interest. however most people are not able to do so. therefore i don't think its a good idea to teach creationism at highschools as an alternative to evolution.
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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Realist
>>>If we have the same ancentory as chimps , why do thay still exist. Are there parents just lazy?
the common ancestor diverged into humans and chimps. it doesn't exist anymore.
>>>How many times does an animal have to jump off a cliff before it or its offspring grow wings?
wings didn'T develop for flying at first.
>>>Why is there not any 'smoking gun' evidence?
what do you mean?
>>>Why do living creators heal themselves?
???
>>>How is something created out of an explosion?
the created matter has the tendency to form complex molecules etc.
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184
Questions for Creationists
by IronGland inwhat does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
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Realist
in principle everyone can believe how he pleases. the only problem is that believe in creation hampers scientific progress and understanding. many children grow up with this superstious nonsense and therefore are prevented from getting interested in biology and many other scientific fields. therefore especially the US (in contrast to europe) looses many good people.
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155
Evolution or creation?
by haujobbz in.
if i had to answer this i suppose i would say im not sure which one i believe, i have always wondered why the universe is so huge and always wondered what its role is and how it affects us.. im always fascinated when i look up at the sky and think to myself i feel so small in such a huge universe a sought of cold isolated feeling is what i experience and then i think, i wonder why this planet came to support life after all it was supposedly all happened by chance.. dont get me wrong im no scientist but i think i need more convincing regarding evolution.. can anyone help regarding these questions
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Realist
rem,
you are doing a great job! you really have a very good knowledge!
by the way, not to study biology wasn't such a bad decision...its damn hard to get a decent job with that!
realist
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155
Evolution or creation?
by haujobbz in.
if i had to answer this i suppose i would say im not sure which one i believe, i have always wondered why the universe is so huge and always wondered what its role is and how it affects us.. im always fascinated when i look up at the sky and think to myself i feel so small in such a huge universe a sought of cold isolated feeling is what i experience and then i think, i wonder why this planet came to support life after all it was supposedly all happened by chance.. dont get me wrong im no scientist but i think i need more convincing regarding evolution.. can anyone help regarding these questions
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Realist
hooberus,
the DNA encodes for proteins. if you duplicate a DNA area which encodes a protein (= gene) then you have at first 2 identical genes encoding the same protein. however due to mutations the sequences will change with time (over many generations) giving eventually rise to two at first slightly and later severely different proteins.
there is an enormous number of proteins that are very similar but have slight differences. these proteins have similar but not identical functions (look up the hemoglobins, DNA polymerases, most transcription factors for instance). these proteins are very similar in sequence and function also amoung different species.
rem,
are you a biologist? you know quite a bit about biology!