shepherdless

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Posts by shepherdless

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  35

  February 26, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: Witnessing in Public Places

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  february 26, 2017 to all bodies of elders re: witnessing in public places.

  and.

  february 25, 2017 to all congregations re: magnetic boards and posters for public witnessing.

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  shepherdless

  Further to Outlaw's point, the Witnessing in Public Places letter says:

  Any application to use a mobile cart or to set up a table or kiosk to display literature must be filled out in the name of an individual publisher, not in the name of the congregation, any corporation used by the organization, or “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” If a small administrative fee is needed in order to acquire space in a public area, it is to be paid by the individual publisher, not the congregation. Publishers should carefully review any such applications to see what responsibility they are taking upon themselves with respect to liability and possible proof of insurance coverage. Publishers who apply to distribute literature at these areas are doing so on their own initiative as part of their personal ministry.

  The bolding is mine, to emphasis that WTBTS is putting all legal liability on the individual.
  However, the letter goes on:

  After consulting with the other elders, the Congregation Service Committee will make the final decision as to specific locations for public witnessing.
  ...
  Locations selected for public witnessing must be within the congregation’s territory boundaries.
  ...
  The service overseer or someone else designated by the body of elders should determine what may be legally required, if anything, in the way of permissions, permits, and insurance coverage.
  ...
  The Congregation Service Committee will determine what equipment (including posters) will be used and where it will be stored. Only artwork approved by the branch office should be displayed.
  ...
  The [public witnessing] equipment will remain the property of the congregation. Care should be taken to request only equipment that will be put to good use by publishers who have been trained in its use and that can be financially supported by the congregation. The congregation may be informed that the cost of the public witnessing equipment will be covered by their contributions to the worldwide work.

  ...
  Determining Who May Participate: The Congregation Service Committee will select qualified publishers to participate in this feature of the ministry. Those selected should be... [blah blah blah]
  ...
  If it is possible and practical, the service overseer or someone designated by the body of elders should organize a midweek and weekend schedule for each selected location.
  ...
  It is usually best for two or more persons to be assigned to work together.

  There is more. I can't be bothered cutting and pasting it. Surely, given the very prescriptive requirements and the fact that individual JW's use Watchtower logos and intellectual property, this letter is evidence that WTBTS is in complete control. The legal ramifications could be interesting.
  
  
  
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  25

  It's right there in our faces, how could we NOT see it?

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i know there have been many many posts on here over the years on the deity of jesus.. i am submitting this one because i am feeling a little confused.. the thing is, i am not the sharpest knife in the drawer and i know this.

  so when i am going through my bible reading (to all you haters, yes i still do it) i see so many scriptures that just fly in the face of everything the jws teach about jesus.. i begin to wonder if indeed i am diseased in the mind ,as they will try to paint me, because it seems so plain to me.. i never even gave it a though growing up as to if jesus and god were equal.

  i just didn't.. now when i read scriptures like philippians 9.... 9 for this very reason, god exalted him to a superior position+ and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,+ 10 so that in the name of jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground+— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that jesus christ is lord+ to the glory of god the father.. .

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  shepherdless

  Thanks NikL for raising this.

  As someone who has never been a JW, this is something that has always bothered me as well. I can't see how anyone reading the bible on its own could come to the conclusion that Jesus is merely an agent or representative of Jehovah. Yet JW's seem so certain and confident on the issue.
• 
  9

  money

  by pepperheart in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  now they are not printing between 40 and 60 million magazines a month what do people think they are doing with the money?.

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  shepherdless

  On an earlier thread, I argued that halving the number of pages printed doesn't halve the cost.

  I note from the financial statements of WTBTS Britain that the line item "producing and distributing Bible literature" dropped from £13,811,638 in 2014 to £11,181,391 in 2015. I imagine the corresponding figure from USA is probably of the order of 10 times that.

  The above savings amount to about 6% of overall expenditure in the WTBTS Britain accounts.
• 
  36

  Anyone know what this sculpture is of the "torture stake?"

  by charity7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey guys!

  i'm new on this site and am a non jw here married to a jw.

  my husband's family are active members and they daily post articles on facebook from jw.org which i know is meant for me to see and read.

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  shepherdless

  Well resolved, scratchme.

  It appears Marsyas was a legendary Greek who was strung up and whipped to death. Looks like another pathetic JW deception effort to support Watchtower nonsense, can be dismissed.
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  36

  Anyone know what this sculpture is of the "torture stake?"

  by charity7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey guys!

  i'm new on this site and am a non jw here married to a jw.

  my husband's family are active members and they daily post articles on facebook from jw.org which i know is meant for me to see and read.

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  shepherdless

  Hi charity7

  I am also a non-JW married to a JW.

  I don't recognize that sculpture. It is either Greek or Roman, with that Corinthian column to the right.

  My short answer to the whole cross/torture stake issue is to point out that JW is the only Christian religion where you are required to believe the wooden implement was a particular shape.

  The long answer is set out in detail in the following old thread:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/92381/facts-on-crucifixion-stauros-torture-stake
• 
  53

  Best statement a householder made to get you to leave them alone.

  by Esse quam videri in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  knocked on a door on a saturday morning.

  a window opened on the floor above me.

  a grizzled old man stuck his head out and said, " we're all heathens here!

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  shepherdless

  My wife returned from door knocking and told me a householder claimed they were Wiccans and practiced witchcraft. The householder apparently said something along the lines that it probably wasn't compatible with my wife's beliefs.

  Sounds like it had the desired effect. My wife agreed and moved on to bother other households.

  - - - - -

  When I was a kid a couple of (I think) Mormons knocked on our door. At almost the same time, by coincidence, my uncle arrived. He summed up the situation and pretended to be a rival evangelist, stating lots of ridiculous benefits if I join his religion, not theirs.

  After a bit one of the Mormons said something like, "perhaps we will return when there is a bit more maturity being shown", and they left. They didn't return, as far as I know.
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  3

  Italy: "I, repentant Jehovah's Witness" before the Office of the Prosecutor against abuses

  by sp74bb in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  links: .

  http://www.lagazzettadelmezzogiorno.it/news/home/858825/io-testimone-di-geova-pentito-esposto-in-procura-contro-gli-abusi.html.

  https://abusostj.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/yo-testigo-de-jehova-arrepentido-ante-la-fiscalia-contra-los-abusos/.

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  shepherdless

  Hi JunkYardDog,

  i wouldn't equate a lack of comments with a lack of interest. I often read OP's and comments and think "excellent", without adding a comment of my own.

  Also, when something is country-specific, it is harder for others to add a meaningful comment. But I wouldn't take that to mean a lack of interest or support.
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  102

  Day 2 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Thomas Jefferson Jr takes the stand in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  day two (wednesday 8 february 2017).

  see also posts and threads regarding: pre-trial / day one / day one update / day five (last day, settlement).

  jefferson: not totally.. zeff: okay.

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  shepherdless

  So it looks like Thomas Jefferson was subpoenaed as a hostile witness for the plaintiff. Interesting that he was trying to argue elders were NOT clergy. Perhaps he knew something about the law in Philadelphia regarding the reporting requirements of clergy; and it differs from what a certain armchair lawyer has recently been claiming on these pages.

  If the account written by John Redwood is even half-true, the jury must have thought Jefferson was deceitful scum. No wonder Watchtower settled.
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  14

  JW Podcast About The Shenanigans of the Borg in Australia

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so here's a link to the latest jw podcast.

  in it they talk about how the organization is structuring things in australia to get out of paying money to victims of abuse.

  the short version, as i remember it, is that they are making each congregation its own individual charity.

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  shepherdless

  That is not the only thing Watchtower seems to be doing to move its assets out of reach of the victims. The following is an extract from page 16 of the 2015 accounts for IBSA (UK):

  

  So that is about A$5 million taken out of Australia and put into UK as an interest free, unsecured loan. Note 16 over the page shows that it is not due for repayment within the next 5 years, if ever.
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  45

  put youir thinking caps on.

  by zeb in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this was sent to me from doug shields blog.

  for those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.. 1914 – recognizing the ”the elephant in the room”.

  the problem with the date ”1914 ad” lays with the two calendars that are involved – jewish and gregorian.

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  shepherdless

  First of all, Fisherman, I enjoy having a good friendly debate. However, I warn in advance, I may disappear for long periods, and not respond.

  Comments in response:

  539-70 is very clear. Wt 607 is a valid interpretation. And that is that.

  697 BC may be a valid interpretation, but not for the date of the fall of Jerusalem. That is where CT Russell stuffed up, and where Watchtower is wrong. Russell copied (via Balbour) the work of John Aquila Brown but didn't understand it, stuffed it up, and Watchtower has been trying to assert Jerusalem fell in 606 BC or 607 BC to hide Russell's stuff up, ever since.

  Isaiah 50:1 is also clear:
  50 This is what Jehovah says:“Where is the divorce certificate of your mother, whom I sent away?Or to which of my creditors did I sell you?Look! It was because of your own errors you were sold,And because of your own transgressions your mother was sent away.

  That is as clear as mud. In contrast, the passages I have referred to are clear and unambiguous.

  In the above quoted scripture, the prophet Isaiah refers to God's covenanted people as a nation, as the mother of you people, God being in a husbandly like covenant with the entire nation. But the scripture also refers to the nation as being sent away at that time before the desolation actually occured, as if it already happened and the nation was already in captivity, before the desolation. Hence this scripture is prophetic, being "sent away" was future but as certain as if it had already occurred. And so, your enterpretation of the verses you cite and the interpretation of others as to when the Bible says events actually happened versus the prophetic language of the Bible. You, yourself admitting to being confused about Isa 50:1

  I am not confused about Isa 50:1. Forget my interpretation, and look at yours. Even your interpretation is consistent with, the 70 years commencing with the first captives being led from Jerusalem, not the fall of Jerusalem.

  It is well established and accepted that the king of Babylon raided Jerusalem 2x. The first time taking part of the nation captive Ez1:1.

  Yes, agreed.

  It was to king Zedekiah that the prophet Ezeqiel said: "Remove the turban and lift of the crown..remove even the high one..a ruin I shall make it.... it shall cerainly become no one's" (the throne still having a king as Ezeqiel spoke)

  So what?

  The "70 years" was a future event and did not begin with the first raid. But you can believe and interpret what you like, your views not invalidating WT. I respect your views and conclusions about the verses you cite but they do not establish the date of the destruction of the first Temple and of Jerusalem.

  On the contrary, I have established the sequence of events, according to the bible alone. If babylon fell on 539 BC (a date Watchtower agrees with) then Jerusalem fell on 587 BC (a date everybody agrees with, except Watchtower).
  

  I have posted a very simple method of extrapolating the date.

  ...but not what happened on the date.

  The desolation begins after the destruction of Jerusalem...

  No biblical support for that statement. In fact it contradicts Jer 27:1-6.

  ...the land rests 70 years, then a remnant is to be restored. Going back in time, Babylon falls and the Jews return; subtract 70 years from the date Jewish feet trample Jerusalem ending its rest and one arrives at circa 607. That is how I see it. And I rest my case.

  The bible is very clear that the 70 years ends when (or arguably before) the fall of Babylon: Jer 25:12.