just like after decades of memorial partakers declining and now reversed.
this information age might reverse the trend of jw membership.
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I am looking forward to seeing the published numbers this year. I expect to see either zero growth or negative 1% for virtually every European country, USA, Canada, Aust, NZ, etc. This may seem unremarkable now, but even 2 years ago, it would have sounded overly optimistic (or pessimistic depending on your p.o.v.).
They will probably still get growth in Latin America, sub-Saharan Africa, Phlippines etc, unfortunately. It will be interesting to see how much.
i really liked this kind of articles when back in borg, because they address the issues i was most concerned about.
or at least i thought that they address, because they don't.
i marked all the deceptive techniques and logical manipulations they use as a mental exercise and would like to share with you.
To quote from the cartoon series your avatar is from; "Good job, Bob!"
I particularly like the reference to increasing cybercrime.
so recently, after having a conversation with a jehovah's witness, i started wondering about how jws define the term "apostate.
" officially, every elder would tell you that an apostate is one who leaves the jehovah's witness faith.
but did anyone else notice that this is not how they use the word colloquially—that they're sort of dishonest about it?.
If you look up "apostasy" on Wikipedia, and scroll down, you will see a separate subsection for Jehovah's Witnesses.
In dictionaries, the word is usually defined along the lines of a renunciation of one's reliigion (or principles or cause etc), but most Christians, if they use it at all, tend to restrict the term to those who abandon faith in God altogether, not those who change religious denomination, or those who dispute individual teachings or leaders within a denomination.
time for some more stats, for your interest and comments.... it has been well documented in the past that, as a group, incomes for jws are lower than virtually any other religion, in australia.
rather than repeat that exercise here, i set out some detail about the gap between jws and ordinary australians.. 1. jws typically earn much less.
here is a bar chart of income brackets, comparing jw incomes against other australians.
Hi konceptual, my response and anecdote about the old couple was in response to Ruby's question. I didn't see your comment before posting mine. I had a perception that people move less in the UK but I have never spent a long period there, so I don't actually know the extent of it.
Anyway, this is all a side-track.
Ruby, I doubt that JWs are in less debt, compared to what they earn, but I don't know. I also doubt that financial strain is a primary explanation for the "return to Jehovahs", but that is a topic for another day.
Edit: I wrote the above before seeing the last two posts.
time for some more stats, for your interest and comments.... it has been well documented in the past that, as a group, incomes for jws are lower than virtually any other religion, in australia.
rather than repeat that exercise here, i set out some detail about the gap between jws and ordinary australians.. 1. jws typically earn much less.
here is a bar chart of income brackets, comparing jw incomes against other australians.
time for some more stats, for your interest and comments.... it has been well documented in the past that, as a group, incomes for jws are lower than virtually any other religion, in australia.
rather than repeat that exercise here, i set out some detail about the gap between jws and ordinary australians.. 1. jws typically earn much less.
here is a bar chart of income brackets, comparing jw incomes against other australians.
what if there are only low paying jobs/or very few high paying jobs in an area. wouldn't that be a cause of an income level for that area?
If by "area", you mean "suburb", then I would answer, no. If by "area" you mean a region so large that it impractical to commute or drive to another region for work, then I would answer yes, but there not many such regions in Australia, not many people live in them, and the young capable ones that do, invariably move to the cities.
Australia is a bit different to UK. Each State has one major city where most of the high paying jobs are (the exception being the high paying remote mining jobs). Australia is highly urbanised, and most of the population live in those few cities. Hence most of the population live near enough to the high paying jobs to get one, if they have the skill or opportunity. Also, Australians are (in my observation) much more willing to move to where the jobs are.
My observation of UK is entirely different. For example, I remember visiting an elderly couple in U.K. who had been living in the same rural cottage as tenants for 50 years (!). I told them that as I was driving there I nearly took a wrong turn towards a major town, which was 50 miles away. Neither of them had ever been to that town, and I had an impression that the town might as well have been on the other side of the planet. I can see that with that mindset, the area in which you live would control your income, rather than the other way around.
time for some more stats, for your interest and comments.... it has been well documented in the past that, as a group, incomes for jws are lower than virtually any other religion, in australia.
rather than repeat that exercise here, i set out some detail about the gap between jws and ordinary australians.. 1. jws typically earn much less.
here is a bar chart of income brackets, comparing jw incomes against other australians.
Ruby: in Australia do jws live in less affluent areas and if they do would this influence your figures?
I haven't checked, but I am sure JWs typically live in less affluent areas. However, I did check geographical data in the past, and JWs are spread fairly evenly across urban and rural Australia, but not uniformly. The distribution amongst the States suggests there are more JWs in States that are cheaper to live in. Qld has the highest concentration of JWs, and Vic has the lowest for a State (little ACT has an even lower rate, less than half the national average). Overall, I think residential address would be a result of income, not a cause of an income level, so I think it is a minor factor, if a factor at all.
also in jw families is it usually that if one parent works full-time the other does not work or works part-time and would this also influence your figures? in the UK more jws are working full time while most mothers work part-time.
I focused specifically on males of working age, to try to eliminate these factors.
* * *
If are after very specific data, and can describe it, very precisely, I will see what I can do. You would probably be better off going to the Australian Bureau of Statistics website, and going to the "Tablebuilder" page, and seeing what info is available. You can get a reasonable amount of info logging in as a "guest". I use a "Tablebuilder Basic" account, myself.
By the way, I would expect the trends in Aust and U.K. to be fairly similar, given the overall cultural similarities.
time for some more stats, for your interest and comments.... it has been well documented in the past that, as a group, incomes for jws are lower than virtually any other religion, in australia.
rather than repeat that exercise here, i set out some detail about the gap between jws and ordinary australians.. 1. jws typically earn much less.
here is a bar chart of income brackets, comparing jw incomes against other australians.
Thanks Simon. I agree with your likely explanations.
are you serious: It would be interesting to see what the income disparity is like in the USA.
Yes, it would be very interesting to know. The Pew research from 2014 has only a little data, and is based on a survey, but it showed (from memory) that JWs in USA also earnt less, were getting older, and (at face value) the gap between JWs and others was widening. When I get a bit of free time, I will set out the numbers. I think Darkspilver did a relevant thread on this as well, about 6 to 12 months ago.
peak attendance 7100. baptised 38 mixed bag of old and young.
youngest age 10. saw no brothers with beards.
better than average .50% growth.
Thanks nowwhat.
0.5% baptisms is a little higher than typical in recent times. Do you happen to know the attendance for last year? The reason I ask is that I have read a suggestion or two of lower attendances at some RC's in USA, this year.
time for some more stats, for your interest and comments.... it has been well documented in the past that, as a group, incomes for jws are lower than virtually any other religion, in australia.
rather than repeat that exercise here, i set out some detail about the gap between jws and ordinary australians.. 1. jws typically earn much less.
here is a bar chart of income brackets, comparing jw incomes against other australians.
Yes, Steve, when I came to write up a summary, I wrote 2 figures in the wrong spot.
Figures should read:
I should add that I did find a chart in a publication that indicated nominal wages increased by 2.8% p.a. over that 5 year period. 1.028^5 = 1.148, ie a 14.8% increase, which is very close to the 14.7% I calculated.
Hopefully, I didn't make any more mistakes.
