shepherdless

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Posts by shepherdless

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  49

  How old's the human race?

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi does anyone know any good articles or videos about how old mankind and the earth are and carbon dating?

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  i've just started looking into it but there seems to be a lot of conflicting ideas over accuracy so i'm unsure what to think.

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  shepherdless

  Hooberus, I suggest that you read some real scientific literature, not that creationist pseudo-science.
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  49

  How old's the human race?

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi does anyone know any good articles or videos about how old mankind and the earth are and carbon dating?

  .

  i've just started looking into it but there seems to be a lot of conflicting ideas over accuracy so i'm unsure what to think.

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  shepherdless

  It doesn’t work like that, Venus. There has been a massive population explosion in the last couple of centuries due to modern health and sanitation, modern medicine, the Haber process, etc. Before that, population levels were relatively stable, even over millenia.
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  13

  another business idea for watchtower PLC

  by stan livedeath in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  its been mentioned before---care homes.

  in the uk there are a few ( no idea how many ) jireh care homes--loosely connected with the watchtower.. but take this on board.

  the dubs are an ever aging customer base.. in the uk, lots of the ageing population end their years in privately run care homes.

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  shepherdless

  The Catholics have been running lots of care homes, hospices etc in Aust for decades, if not longer. Other religions do as well. The SDA has a large care facility not that far from us. Watchtower (at least in Aust) is perhaps one of the few significant Christian religions that doesn’t.

  I actually mentioned the idea to my wife some time ago, the concept of building a care facility for elderly JWs. I said Watchtower is never going to build something like that, there are a lot of elderly JWs who don’t seem to have a lot of means and would be after something affordable. A business opportunity for someone.
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  39

  If the Watchtower corporation went bust

  by Fred Franztone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you think would happen to jehovah's witnesses as a religion and as a people?.

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  shepherdless

  It is a difficult question to answer, without making assumptions about the manner in which the Borg might go bust.

  Firstly, I think Watchtower to "go bust", the US branch would have to go bust, in its own right. Whatever happens in the rest of the world is irrelevant by comparison.

  Secondly, it would make quite a difference whether the "bust" is due to a default with a financier, or just a failure to keep paying salaries and various operating expenses. I don't think I have ever seen any evidence that Watchtower has borrowed money, so I would assume the latter.

  If the above 2 assumptions are correct, it would be difficult for the US branch to go bust in a spectacular manner. Instead, would would see them become late payers on everything, shutting down any significant expensive operations (eg printing), reducing funding for overseas missionaries, laying off bethelites, and selling off non-core assets (ie underutilized Kingdom Halls, etc). That is pretty much what they are doing now (except I don't know whether or not they are late payers).

  If the above is the actual situation (which is really just a cash flow issue), then it could go on for decades. It would not create any sudden drop in adherents, but it would be corrosive to the numbers over time.

  If (hypothetically) the US branch does have significant financial debts, and it were to default, it may not become public knowledge, unless the default is spectacular, in some way. I don't see that happening, but if it did, perhaps it could cause some adherents to peer behind the curtain. Unfortunately, the majority would probably just follow whatever explanation the GB gave.
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  39

  Clearly, undeniably, without doubt ... is there a term for introducing a thought in such a way.

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  watchtower article often introduce a point that has no merit with words such a "undeniably.".

  for instance the watchtower 2014 august 15 page 10 says:.

  "jehovah undeniably blesses the preaching work of christian women and supports them in times of trial.

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  shepherdless

  Is there an official term for this type of fallacious reasoning?

  It seems to me it could arguably fall into any one of the following fallacies. They overlap:

  Non sequitor

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

  Ipse dixit

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipse_dixit

  proof by assertion

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion
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  15

  Victoria, Australia:Survivors of sexual abuse to be able to sue churches

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-24/survivors-of-sexual-abuse-to-be-able-to-sue-churches/9481000.

  sexual abuse survivors in victoria to be able to sue churches as government moves to end 'ellis defence'.

  updated about 2 hours ago.

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  shepherdless

  The Ellis defense is explained in the following link:

  http://lawgeekdownunder.blogspot.com/2012/11/a-little-law-about-catholic-church.html

  I don't think Watchtower in Australia (full name: Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Of Australia, Inc) could use that defence, because, unlike the Catholic Church, it IS an incorporated association. However, the proposed law should remove any doubt.
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  6

  Hatred of Jews

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have never understood the hatred and dislike towards jewish people.

  so many people are bothered by jewish influence.. do you have anti jewish bias?

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  shepherdless

  Religion is very good at creating an “us and them” mentality, and antisemetism is one of the consequences.

  Religion by its nature, is tribal. Sadly, that applies to mainstream religions, not just cults. I suspect that that is one of the main reasons organised religions have been able to survive and dominate, over the centuries.
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  13

  Dutch

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why i am proud to be dutch: today the state secretary of foreign affairs had to resign because of lying about russia.. we don't accept openly liars.. g..

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  shepherdless

  Hey hecce ever heard of Steven Bradbury ?

  I remember back in 2002. We were watching TV, when the show was interrupted by "breaking news". The announcer stated that Australia had just won its first ever Winter Olympics Gold Medal, but in "unusual circumstances". They then showed the replay, and I reckon we were still laughing a half hour later.

  Back to the OP. It is good to see a political system with the integrity to make a politician do the right thing, when caught out.
  
  
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  12

  What’s with Pastor Russell and Miracle Wheat ?

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have researched pastor russell and miracle wheat , has any one found out some interesting information?

  it seems he sold the wheat at a premium and promised 5 x yield ?

  he denies selling - as he did not know , but he is a snake oil salesman.

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  shepherdless

  Wow. I already know a fair bit about the Miracle Wheat story, but I didn't know about the close connection between J A Bohnet and CT Russell. This story just gets worse.

  Even Watchtower's version of events has the smell of dodgyness about it:

  From Yearbook, 1975 (note reference to Mr Bohnet as a "Watch Tower reader"):

  MIRACLE WHEAT
  Foes of C. T. Russell used not only his domestic affairs but other “weapons” against him. For instance, his enemies have charged that he sold a great quantity of ordinary wheat seed under the name of “Miracle Wheat” at one dollar per pound, or sixty dollars per bushel. They have held that from this Russell realized an enormous personal profit. However, these charges are absolutely false. What are the facts?
  In 1904 Mr. K. B. Stoner noticed an unusual plant growing in his garden in Fincastle, Virginia. It turned out to be wheat of an uncommon kind. The plant had 142 stalks and each bore a head of fully matured wheat. In 1906 he named it “Miracle Wheat.” Eventually others obtained and grew it, enjoying extraordinary yields. In fact, Miracle Wheat won prizes at several fairs. C. T. Russell was very interested in anything related to the Biblical predictions that “the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose” and “the earth shall yield her increase.” (Isa. 35:1; Ezek. 34:27, AV) On November 23, 1907, H. A. Miller, Assistant Agriculturalist of the United States Government, filed in the Department of Agriculture a report commending this wheat grown by Mr. Stoner. Throughout the country the public press took note of the report. C. T. Russell’s attention was drawn to it, and so in Zion’s Watch Tower of March 15, 1908, on page 86, he published some press comments and extracts from the government report. Then, in conclusion, he commented: “If this account be but one-half true it testifies afresh to God’s ability to provide things needful for the ‘times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began.’—Acts 3:19-21.”
  Mr. Stoner was not a Bible Student or an associate of C. T. Russell, and neither were various other persons who experimented with Miracle Wheat. In 1911, however, Watch Tower readers J. A. Bohnet of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Samuel J. Fleming of Wabash, Indiana, presented to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the aggregate of about thirty bushels of this wheat, proposing that it be sold for one dollar per pound and that all the proceeds be received by the Society as a donation from them, to be used in its religious work. The wheat was received and sent out by the Society and the gross receipts from it amounted to about $1,800. Russell himself did not get a penny of this money. He merely published a statement in The Watch Tower to the effect that the wheat had been contributed and could be obtained for a dollar a pound. The Society itself made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge and the money received went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were informed that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned. In fact, the identical money received for the wheat was held for a year for that purpose. But not one person asked for a refund. The conduct of Brother Russell and the Society in connection with Miracle Wheat was completely open and aboveboard.

  From Watchtower 1953:
  

  Questions From Readers
  ● Are the charges in a tract against Jehovah’s witnesses true that the Society’s first president was immoral, profiteered from selling some mysteriously named wheat at $65 a bushel, and committed perjury when asked in court if he could read Greek?—C. W., North Carolina.
  No. They were deliberate falsehoods. No immoral action was ever proved against the Watchtower Society’s first president, Charles Taze Russell. In a suit for separate maintenance Mrs. Russell’s attorney said, “We make no charge of adultery”; and Mrs. Russell, who went to all ends to discredit her husband (her main objection was that he would not let her control the Watchtower magazine’s policy), specifically said she did not accuse him of immorality. When critics who did not know him thought they could take portions of the trial and malign his good name, he swore: “I never was guilty of immorality toward any person. . . . Further, I have never desired to do so.” Those who knew him personally highly respected his integrity. J. F. Rutherford, one who was sufficiently convinced of the importance of the Christian work Brother Russell did to likewise devote his life and funds to it, and who succeeded Russell as the Society’s president, said at Russell’s funeral: “Truly it can be said that Pastor Russell’s character was and is without blemish.”
  The facts about “Miracle Wheat” are equally perverted. Brother Russell was interested in anything related to the Scriptural prediction that the desert would blossom as a rose and the earth yield her increase. So, when the public press reported a new and unusual strain of wheat, called “Miracle Wheat” by its original grower, Brother Russell reported this in The Watchtower, along with a government report on it. Some Watchtower readers contacted the grower, who was in no way connected with the Watchtower Society, and purchased some of the wheat. When theirs produced seed they offered it as a contribution to the Society. The original grower sold the seed at $1.25 a pound, so they suggested their contribution be priced at $1.00, and all the money received be given to the Society. The Society made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge, though it won several State Fair grand prizes before it wore itself out. Brother Russell neither named it nor profited from it; the money went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were told that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned, and the money was held for a year for this purpose. Not a single person requested it back. The only critics were those who had no real knowledge of the matter, which was purely a donation sale for the benefit of the Society—as open and aboveboard as a church cake sale.
  The “perjury” charge was not made in court, but in a tract written later by an irresponsible slanderer against whom Brother Russell had brought a libel case. The official record of the case in question (Police Court of the City of Hamilton, Ontario, March 17, 1913) says: “Q. You don’t profess, then, to be schooled in the Latin language? A. No, sir. Q. Or in Greek? A. No, sir.” After this he was asked if he knew individual Greek letters, and it was over this that the question of his knowledge of Greek arose. This false “perjury” claim has been repeated by many who never went to this Canadian city to check this old court record to see if they are spreading truth or a lie. Not only has the question they “quote” been reworded, but Brother Russell had specifically said that he did not know Greek.
  The extent to which critics will deliberately falsify such quotations is shown in another tract that says Jehovah’s witnesses deny the ransom and tries to support this with a quotation from Volume 5, page 127, of the Studies in the Scriptures: “Jesus’ suffering would not pay the debt of sin.” Here is what the book actually says: “True, the wages of sin was not suffering, but death; and hence suffering on our Lord’s part would not alone pay the wages of sin for us: it was absolutely necessary that he should ‘taste death for every man.’” The book says exactly the opposite of what the tract claims it says.
  With such lies and perverted facts the critics condemn themselves. They would not like to be classed with the ultramodernists who accuse Jesus of being illegitimate, but they stoop equally low regarding other men whose lives were spent unselfishly in God’s service.
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  45

  Personal opinions spouted from the platform?

  by purrpurr in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  have you ever heard some brothers own ideas and opinions spouted from the platform?

  perhaps off brand or crazy ones?

  some that i've heard is:.

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  shepherdless

  "Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia."