Oh Jesus, the local site team used this image in 2 of nearly 50 articles published on the site during this summer. It's one of the first appropriate stock photos they found. Finally, do you really think those very few Christians and non-believers browsing this site don't know who JWs are and will be deceived by a thumbnail (apart from the fact that not every person would even see a cross on it)? Is it really a big deal?
Corney
JoinedPosts by Corney
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JW-RUSSIA.org cross image
by neat blue dog ini was just browsing the russian jw site and saw this image that appears to represent christian persecution by showing handcuffs in front of prison bars that appear to form a cross.
which would be weird because they don't even believe in the cross, or maybe it was clip art from another source and they didn't notice.
or last and most likely i'm seeing things that aren't there 😜.
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Corney
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Corney
Jehalapeno The Trump administration announced Wednesday that the U.S. will impose tough new trade sanctions on Russia in response to the poisoning and attempted murder of a former Russian spy and his daughter in Britain.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/world/europe/russia-sanctions-ruble.html
Yeah, the Trump admin announced that tough sanctions will be imposed in November or later. The announcement was made after new sanctions bill was introduced by US senators.So, I think the Trump's intention is clear: to prevent the new bill from being passed and to pool the wool over Americans' eyes before the midterm election.
His entire foreign policy (from sabotaging implementation of CAATSA, decimation of State Department under Tillerson and abandonment of democracy and human rights agenda to countless attacks on US allies and international institutions and undermining America's influence) was beneficial for Putin/Russia. Why will the pattern change?
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JW-RUSSIA.org cross image
by neat blue dog ini was just browsing the russian jw site and saw this image that appears to represent christian persecution by showing handcuffs in front of prison bars that appear to form a cross.
which would be weird because they don't even believe in the cross, or maybe it was clip art from another source and they didn't notice.
or last and most likely i'm seeing things that aren't there 😜.
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Corney
@NBD ...and saw this image that appears to represent Christian persecution by showing handcuffs in front of prison bars that appear to form a cross.
This is a thumbnail preview on the main page; it is very difficult to see a cross on the full photo (below)@NBD ...or maybe it was clip art from another source and they didn't notice
Yep@SD If it's a stock photo then yeah it was carefully chosen.
Depositphotos (where they mainly take photos) >> search term "prison/тюрьма" >> the first pagePhotos 1 and 2 were used on the site. I think it's not necessary to explain why almost all other images are inappropriate.
It's time to stop making mountains out of molehills.
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Anyone know of update on Delaware legal case?
by careful indoes anyone know of any updates on this case about the clergy-penitent privilege?.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/lawsuit-against-jehovahs-witnesses-elders-for-not-reporting-child-abuse-continues-443003903.html.
this was the latest thing (last sept.) i could find in a google search.
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Corney
The case was actually settled: no admission of guilt, but $19,500 (nearly two thirds of the highest possible penalty) were to be paid by the congregation and two elders collectively, and the elders agreed to participate in a special training. More info on http://jwsurvey.org/child-abuse-2/jehovahs-witness-elders-fined-for-failure-to-report-child-abuse-watchtower-settles-with-Delaware
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Corney
TD
"Countries like Russia" as I used the term would be countries who have either refused to recognize Jehovah's Witnesses and/or questioned their legitimacy as a Christian religion. I gave the example of Bulgaria. Perhaps you would like to comment on that?
Firstly, Bulgaria is a bad example because:
- it's a 20+-year-old example; JWs a recognized in Bulgaria as a religion since 1998;
- post-Communist Bulgaria didn't prosecute Witnesses for their belief;
- in 1990s, there was a campaign against "non-traditional" religions at all, including Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists as like as Orthodox and Muslim communities outside state-supported organizations. For example, "[u]p to July 25, 1994, the Council of Ministers accepted three decisions which affected 62 [religious] communities and foundations. Only 23 of them, mostly with Christian-Orthodox orientation were permitted to register and re-register. The remaining 39 communities were denied permission. These had mainly Protestant orientation, two Muslim and one Christian-Orthodox organization" (Human Rights in Bulgaria in 1994, p. 5). So, it is possible to conclude the government's decision was driven by bias against religious minorities;
- the decision refusing registration for national JW association (as like as many other religious associations) was adopted by executive branch with irregularities incompatible with the rule of law - it contained no reasons and a judicial review was not available;
- in 1990s, Bulgaria was a poor state in its first post-totalitarian years.
Second, I think governments have not power to decide whether a religion is true, truly Christian or a heresy and whether a belief is "legitimate". That's not their business.
As to mentioned problematic practices. Firstly, I cannot comment on the Bulgarian case since I'm not persuaded by your accusations. Where are complaints from the government or allegations from CoE Committee of Ministers (the body supervising execution of such settlements)? Or maybe you have knowledge about the situation in Bulgaria and enforcement of blood doctrine by national JW association?
Secondly, ok, you've mentioned these issues - we all know about them and what the org is (apart from my partial disagreement with the chosen wording), but what's next? Do they justify the discussed persecutions? Or would they justify an apartheid, concentrations camps or beheadings for JWs? If not, why do you continuously mention them in this thread?
As to allegations of hypocrisy, I don't care about them at all. It is not so difficult to accuse almost any victim of human rights violations of ethically problematic views or behavior but such accusations are irrelevant.
Finally, it is necessary not to oversimplify the question of harmful and controversial practices, not to forget about how such practices and improper influence are widespread in human society (incl. mainstream churches); about the fact that, on one hand, JWs are not zombies or slaves and can chose to obey or disobey their leaders, on other hand, there is strong pressure from the org; about difficulty of distinguishing between proper and undue influence. This is so easy to list blood doctrine, shunning etc. but it's far more harder to come to fair and reasonable practical conclusions.
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Corney
@TD
Here in the U.S. we're willing to recognize almost anything as a religion, but that's not the case in countries like Russia. If the JW's want to be recognized as a religion on human rights grounds, then I think they're going to have to start behaving more like a religion (as in being fundamentally benevolent and charitable) and less like a group that abuses the whole concept of human rights.
This opposition between the US and "countries like Russia" (what are they? Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, China, Singapore, Syria?) is false. I think you know that JWs are fully recognized as a religion in countries like Austria, Hungary, Germany, France, Romania, Spain, UK, even Belarus and Kazakhstan, not only in America. They can freely practice their religion in almost all states (including all democratic and almost all developed) with exception of some Muslim, Socialist and post-Soviet ones. And there are only two countries that incarcerate people merely for being active Witnesses - Eritrea (where it is common to detain people for years without charges) and Russia. Even in Singapore, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan etc. it is not a crime to be a JW. In Russia, it is.Again, in Russia (and "countries like Russia") appeals to freedom of religion are useless since Russian authorities and their pocket "courts" don't respect human rights at all.
So, that's not about different visions of religious freedom but about respecting it or not.
And Russian government doesn't dislike religion in general. Russian Orthodox Church is now like Communist Party in the Soviet Union - it is almost impossibly for government officials and people in similar positions and for state-controlled media (incl. all major TV channels) to criticize it. Doors of schools, universities, hospitals, Army barracks, and prisons are open for Orthodox priests (but not ministries of other religions), and many school, college, hospital etc. buildings were transferred to ROC. The Church is directly and indirectly sponsored by state. Finally, many staffers of the Church (believing in hypnosis and tithe in the org and JWs delivering data collected during D2D ministry to CIA) are "experts" in the field of religion for state security and law enforcement agencies. And that's all despite the fact that only very small percentage of the population (nearly 2-4%) are practicing Orthodox believers.
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Corney
Do you mean "the Great Tribulation"?
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News from Court in Europe
by asp59 in.
basically the same as prohibiting house to house preaching?.
https://europe.easybranches.com/finland/european-court-of-justice-rules-jehovah’s-witnesses-illegally-gather-personal-data-455622.
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Corney
For example, it will be difficult to make return visits without such records, as like as to collect data about foreign-language speakers. -
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News from Court in Europe
by asp59 in.
basically the same as prohibiting house to house preaching?.
https://europe.easybranches.com/finland/european-court-of-justice-rules-jehovah’s-witnesses-illegally-gather-personal-data-455622.
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Corney
The headline "European Court of Justice rules Jehovah’s Witnesses illegally gather personal data" is misleading, as I've shown here, and it will possibly enough for JW organization to instruct publishers not to collect data mentioned in art. 9 of GDPR and to invoke art. 6(1)(f) of the Regulation in respect of other personal data to comply with data protection law. There will be changes, but it unlikely will be necessary to eliminate door-to-door preaching.
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Corney
@steve2, Scientologists and Mormons are not banned in Russia.
@Finkelstein, these persecutions (100+ armed raids at homes, 50+ are prosecuted and 20+ are detained for the first 10 month merely for practicing their religion) have nothing about real or alleged victims, they don't help anybody and only ruin and will ruin hundreds and thousands lives.
@eyeuse2badub, "criticizing, predicting, and even looking forward to the destruction of a government" are not crimes, taking into account that JWs don't commit, incite for or justify any anti-governmental activities.
@Perry, @LongHairGal, poorly founded speculations about higher state expenses and dubious charges of deception are bad justifications for criminalizing entire religion, aren't they?