Posts by Saethydd

19

My Thoughts on the Subject of Faith

by Saethydd in

i've had several discussion about the basis for faith in an all powerful creator for the universe, and it seems as if the conversation often comes back to, "well, either way, you have to have faith either in a creator or in the process of evolution because you can't observe that either.

" setting aside the issue of creation and evolution (where i currently sit at undecided), i was also troubled by the tendency to treat faith as a static or absolute concept when in reality it is far more complex.. to begin with, faith isn't just about belief, it combines the concepts of belief and trust.

for the purposes of this discussion, i will be focusing primarily on the second attribute.

Saethydd

Logical reasoning (for whatever that is worth to a religious person) can certainly be used to grant such professionals a higher credibility, and this argument has nothing with education, but rather motive.
I wonder where did you get that. How do you back that up? It's juts curiosity. How do you conclude that? I am honestly inquiring, not confronting.

With regards to my comment implying that religious people don't value logic, I suppose it is based primarily on my own somewhat extensive experience dealing with them, seeing that I live in the South Eastern United States I deal with many more religious people than just JWs. Though perhaps they are not all like that, it's just how most of my experiences go with them. Additionally, I personally have not been able to find a logical reason to believe in a personal creator when this individual has not deigned to speak directly with a large group of people in 3,500 years. (And that event is only recorded in a single source and may have been written long after the day it is supposed to have happened, so who knows if it really even did happen at all?) I recognize that personal experience isn't the strongest basis on which to build an argument, but it is all I have in this case.

If you meant, "How did I conclude that professionals deserve a higher regard in terms of credibility?" That was the topic of the paragraph following that sentence. I'll try and clarify my point though. What does the scientific community as a whole have to gain by purposefully skewing evidence against the Bible? As far as I can tell they would gain nothing by doing that. In fact they would be setting themselves up for a tremendous failure when they were proved wrong. On the other hand, the religious community as a whole does have a motive to only point out the evidence that supports their view. It allows them to appear open-minded, when in fact anything that conflicts with the beliefs they already hold is simply discarded, no matter how much evidence there is or how large the consensus view of that evidence.

19

My Thoughts on the Subject of Faith

by Saethydd in

i've had several discussion about the basis for faith in an all powerful creator for the universe, and it seems as if the conversation often comes back to, "well, either way, you have to have faith either in a creator or in the process of evolution because you can't observe that either.

" setting aside the issue of creation and evolution (where i currently sit at undecided), i was also troubled by the tendency to treat faith as a static or absolute concept when in reality it is far more complex.. to begin with, faith isn't just about belief, it combines the concepts of belief and trust.

for the purposes of this discussion, i will be focusing primarily on the second attribute.

Saethydd

I've had several discussion about the basis for faith in an all powerful creator for the universe, and it seems as if the conversation often comes back to, "Well, either way, you have to have faith either in a creator or in the process of evolution because you can't observe that either." Setting aside the issue of creation and evolution (where I currently sit at undecided), I was also troubled by the tendency to treat faith as a static or absolute concept when in reality it is far more complex.

To begin with, faith isn't just about belief, it combines the concepts of belief and trust. For the purposes of this discussion, I will be focusing primarily on the second attribute. Trust is an interesting thing because it is not an absolute value (not for me anyway), instead, it is relative, in that I can trust two people but not necessarily to the same degree. Furthermore, my trust is not all-encompassing, for example, I might be willing to trust someone with my life, but that doesn't mean I'm going to trust their views on quantum mechanics to be accurate.

So in my view, it is perfectly all right, even wise to have "faith" in biologists to explain biology, and in historians to explain history. That "faith" however should not be absolute, but it can certainly be to a higher degree of trust than is given to a theologian. Logical reasoning (for whatever that is worth to a religious person) can certainly be used to grant such professionals a higher credibility, and this argument has nothing with education, but rather motive.

The fact of the matter is, that the processes that scientists use to prove their ideas are not at all impacted by whether or not the Bible is true, for if the methodology is really flawed then it will be discovered one way or another. The same principle proves true for archeologists and others who study history. So when these groups of people tell us that something in the Bible is not supported by their findings, what possible motive would they have for lying? (I'm referring to the communities as a whole, not individuals) Theologians on the other have a vested interest in the Bible being true, which will often cause them to simultaneously use historical evidence to verify their belief in the Bible, meanwhile, any evidence that contradicts the Bible must be wrong, based nothing other than the fact that it contradicts the Bible.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts on the nature of faith. Anyone else have thoughts they would like to share, or critiques of the logic I used? After all, I don't claim infallibility.

15

A Question about Spiritistic Books

by schnell in

jw
friends

i have a nearly academic interest in the occult, though i am not a spiritualist and remain a skeptic.

i've come to learn that demons are based on everything from dust devils in the desert, to diseases, to actual people.

probably most of all, demons are a tool of good ol' fashioned con artists and fear mongers.. but here's a question.

Saethydd

That bad feeling you get from dark spaces isn't a ghost or a spirit, it's the Vashta Nerada. As proof, I offer a source that is about a credible as the Bible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOE90ZSundc

58

watchtower lapel pins

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've been noticing lots of these pins on lapels.

i could almost understand the jwdotorg pin because the new mantra is to go to the website.

but why on earth are they sporting a building?

Saethydd

While the Society may not endorse the wearing of the JW.org lapel pin, a while back they did in fact, mandate that all Kingdom Halls (in the United States anyway) put up a square JW.org sign on their building. So isn't that the similar to churches putting steeples and crosses?

58

Mexico branch......Now closing!!!

by krismalone in

a circuit overseer friend of mine serving in latin america called me today to say hi.

i asked him what's new and he dropped the news that they have received notification that the branch in mexico will be closing!!

this branch also called the central american branch (although located in mexico) oversees all of mexico's 800,000+ publishers plus all 7 countries of central america of over 100,000 publishers.

Saethydd

If that CO thing turns out to be true, I already know which scripture they are going to use to justify it:

2 Thessalonians 3:8 - nor did we eat anyone’s food free. On the contrary, by labor and toil we were working night and day so as not to impose an expensive burden on any one of you.

Possibly it will be

Acts 18:3 - and because he had the same trade, he stayed at their home and worked with them,+ for they were tentmakers by trade.

39

How Many Prayed Out Loud whilst they were at a restaurant?

by LoisLane looking for Superman in

jw
friends

.

not loudly, but just so your table could hear?.

ll.

Saethydd

just bowed my head and pretended

That's what I've started to do recently when I'm around my family.

39

How Many Prayed Out Loud whilst they were at a restaurant?

by LoisLane looking for Superman in

jw
friends

.

not loudly, but just so your table could hear?.

ll.

Saethydd

My father never really did this, we would also say our own silent and discreet prayers, but I remember how awkward it was when another brother would do it. Seems like it was usually the same type of brother too, the one that always sat front and center at the Kingdom Hall.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

And that doesn't even bring up the fact that those nations conquered a bunch of other people who had nothing to do with the Israelites, thus Occam's Razor suggests that they just got swept along with the rest of Mesopotamia and then tried to use that to explain why the "true God" didn't protect them.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

After examining my feelings more deeply, I think I know what it really is that has my heart torn. Part of me wants to sit back and quietly fade out to avoid the consequences that a "noisy" departure would bring, however, I also desperately want to tell all of my family and friends about the reasons for my doubts in the hopes that they will join me in leaving. But my own personal experience inside the group, and all of your experiences that I have read tell me that I would likely convince no one on account of how thoroughly they are indoctrinated, and thus I would only further alienate those I care about. Heh, it's situations like these that make me wish I could "quicksave" life like a video game and test out my argument on them, then reload it if it turns out they can't be swayed.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

I recall a Watchtower article (don't remember which one exactly), who's purpose was to disprove hell as a place that Satan rules over and punishes the wicked. To prove such a notion as illogical they used the illustration of a father who discovers that a wicked person has been influencing their child to behave badly, then they asked the question: Would it make sense for the parent to have that child punished by the wicked person who led them astray? I thought that the argument made sense at the time, however, since then I have realized that the God of the Bible did use that very method. I'm not referring to hell, but rather to his dealing with the Israelites. According to the Bible God used the Assyrians and the Babylonians to punish Isreal, but here is the thing, both of those nations were rife with idolatry and such things and may have even influenced the Israelites into taking up those practices.

Why would God punish his people for straying from the "true religion" by sending them to a place that would have such a bad influence on them by exposing them to even more idolatry?