i could not find a topic about this if there is one ooops.
it is hard to speak with my mother or any other witnesses about this, their response is "its ok to be gay just don't ever 'act out.
acting out = being with someone even if its a healthy consensual legal relationship between two adults its still wrong.
Homosexual relations occur with a 10% frequency in most mammal populations, oppression (or in the JW case "suppresion") of such relationships, however, is only found in one of them. So which of those two things is actually an "unnatural perversion?" To me the answer seems pretty clear.
(I'm personally attracted to women, but don't care about what their original gender may have been.)
as we know, witnesses teach that adam and eve were perfect and then committed the first act of sin and rebellion.. they in turn were cursed,and we all declined as their offspring.
humans supposedly lived shorter and shorter lives, and became more imperfect and sinful.. the further away in time humans go then, they should be getting worse.
so why is it then that as a society, humans have actually improved in so many ways?.
Well, I would guess it is because JWs don't live in an "improving world" they are convinced the world is full of more violence, hunger, and sickness than it ever has been (despite the evidence to the contrary), furthermore, such actions as, homosexuals being given equal rights, just causes JW's being further convinced that the world is "immoral" and "God needs to set it right."
JWs live in a world they are afraid to take part in, so they have to convince themselves that it is a dark evil place with no redeeming qualities or people, a belief which I have found to be wildly untrue in my experience.
read this over at reddit so the credit goes to the person over there but in genesis 4:22 it's say one of the offspring of adam knew how to work with iron roughly 130 years after the creation of man.
now historians and scientists say man didn't figure out how to use iron until about 1100 bc, man we're we wrong!
it's also interesting that cain is building a city when there like 10 people on the planet and nimrod goes on to build the tower of babel only about 100 year after the flood.
Historical evidence means virtually nothing to most people who accept the Bible as the Word of God. If historical evidence (or a lack thereof) and the Bible contradict each other, then the Bible is always right no matter what because it was right that one time about Pilate being a real person before other historical evidence corroborated his existence.
i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.
i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.
it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.
It's all right man, go ahead and vent, we understand. Most would also agree that it's unhealthy, that's why we are almost all exJWs here.
i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.
i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.
it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.
Its just that now its only "if" i become a brother and then the date keeps on changing from dec like she said but now denies to a vague 2 years from now which sounds like bs to me. This is where the whole sincerity and honesty become an issue to me. No that we all dont lie at times but this is serious life altering things and i dont know what the real truth is. Its like i almost have to interrogate her to get her to admit she love me which is messed up in itself.
That's the guilt again, she probably does love you, but she has convinced herself that she loves God more and wants to put him first, which means she can't admit (Maybe even to herself) that she still loves you. She's being so vague about marriage because she wants you to study the Bible because "you love Jehovah," not because you love her and are doing it for her. JWs basically believe that the only way to have a happy marriage is if both people are super involved in the organization and build a relationship with God individually.
i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.
i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.
it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.
The whole blood transfusion thing would not be an issue, if lets say we have a kid and he or she needs a transfusion he or she will get one.
I wouldn't count on that, taking a blood transfusion is basically an excommunication offence among the JWs if she gets fully sucked back in she won't take one even if it would save her life.
Also knowing her she wouldnt divorce or at least that what i think. Still i would have a prenup because one can never be sure
She couldn't get a "scriptural" divorce unless you committed adultery, however, if she felt like you were a "threat to her spirituality" she might separate from you.
i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.
i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.
it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.
She wants me to marry her then because i wasnt ready at day X doesnt want to get married at all no that i want to. Things like that make no sense to me.
That's the guilt coming out, when she first started back wth the JWs she wanted to get married right away to fix the fact that she was having premarital sex by getting married to you, however, now she is probably being told not to "yolk herself to an unbeliever." JWs have strict views on such things and don't allow much leeway for personal values, this creates the effect your observing, she's desperately pulling herself away from what she actually wants and cares about in an effort to conform to what is expected of her a JW. It's screwed up I know, but that's what's going on with her right now.
i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.
i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.
it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.
It seems like she is currently torn between her feelings for you and the indoctrination she was submitted to growing up.
The reason she is acting that way is because JWs practice a form of isolationism, supposedly to protect themselves from "worldly influences" that might "lead them away from Jehovah." They view it as bad to have any friends who don't "love Jehovah." (which for them means being a baptized Witness, making all the meetings, going out in service, etc.) I'm not saying they won't be friendly with worldly people, but they won't typically spend any quality social time with you unless they can find a way to preach to you. That's probably why she seems so erratic, she wants to spend time with you, but when she does feels guilty.
The way I see it you have a few choices: you could try to convince her to leave behind the religious group again, but I'll be honest, your odds aren't good on that one. Perhaps if you could have an open discussion with her and tell her the changes you've noticed her behavior and how you're feeling things that'll do it, but she obviously went back to this group because she feels like she's missing something. (Most likely contact with her family.) Though if it is just "spirituality" that she seeks, you could use a resource like jwfacts.com to try and convince her that the JWs aren't the right place for that.Though once again, easier said than done you're probably facing off against over a decade of indoctrination into the JWs. (Note there is a strong possibility that she will call tha website "apostate" so I wouldn't share it as being the source of your info, might make her mad and unreceptive.)
You could start "studying the Bible" (Reading JW publications a few times a week) and "progress to baptism," and maybe that would make her happy. Would probably make you miserable though if you don't have any patience for cult mind control. But hey, if you think she's the only girl for you maybe it would be worth it.
The final option I would suggest (and the one I would personally take) is cutting the relationship off and finding a girl who won't try to put the religious dogma she gets from a publishing house in New York ahead of your happiness.
“all of us have a choice.
either we serve jehovah or we serve satan and his demons.
how wise it is to serve jehovah!” - spirits of the dead, p23-4.
I'm by no means supporting JWs, but they support neutrality in human governments on the belief that they are backing God over any human government. So in regards to general neutrality from everything, no they don't support it, but the belief that remaining neutral from governments is something they do for God doesn't require that.
Now, as to whether or not they truly maintain neutrality among "worldly governments" is another matter entirely. After all, I would say they are probably more fond of the USA or EU than they are of a country like Russia or North Korea. (Which I would say they have every right to be, but their religious beliefs don't allow for it.)
it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.
if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.
followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.
@slimboyfat
You make some valid points, I will do my best to take them into consideration.
