Posts by Saethydd

My father never really did this, we would also say our own silent and discreet prayers, but I remember how awkward it was when another brother would do it. Seems like it was usually the same type of brother too, the one that always sat front and center at the Kingdom Hall.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

And that doesn't even bring up the fact that those nations conquered a bunch of other people who had nothing to do with the Israelites, thus Occam's Razor suggests that they just got swept along with the rest of Mesopotamia and then tried to use that to explain why the "true God" didn't protect them.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

After examining my feelings more deeply, I think I know what it really is that has my heart torn. Part of me wants to sit back and quietly fade out to avoid the consequences that a "noisy" departure would bring, however, I also desperately want to tell all of my family and friends about the reasons for my doubts in the hopes that they will join me in leaving. But my own personal experience inside the group, and all of your experiences that I have read tell me that I would likely convince no one on account of how thoroughly they are indoctrinated, and thus I would only further alienate those I care about. Heh, it's situations like these that make me wish I could "quicksave" life like a video game and test out my argument on them, then reload it if it turns out they can't be swayed.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

I recall a Watchtower article (don't remember which one exactly), who's purpose was to disprove hell as a place that Satan rules over and punishes the wicked. To prove such a notion as illogical they used the illustration of a father who discovers that a wicked person has been influencing their child to behave badly, then they asked the question: Would it make sense for the parent to have that child punished by the wicked person who led them astray? I thought that the argument made sense at the time, however, since then I have realized that the God of the Bible did use that very method. I'm not referring to hell, but rather to his dealing with the Israelites. According to the Bible God used the Assyrians and the Babylonians to punish Isreal, but here is the thing, both of those nations were rife with idolatry and such things and may have even influenced the Israelites into taking up those practices.

Why would God punish his people for straying from the "true religion" by sending them to a place that would have such a bad influence on them by exposing them to even more idolatry?

22

Is it just for social reasons you remain?

by UnshackleTheChains in

as someone who has tried to fade on various occasions, i always end up attending meetings!

why is this the case you may ask?.

if i was single, i would have kissed this high control american religion goodbye many years ago.

Saethydd

Couldn't be more wrong. 90% of our religion believes in God.

I think it would be more accurate to say that 90% claim to believe in God.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

So if it became aware to humanity that another large asteroid was going to impact onto the earth, again notably killing off most of everything living on this planet including are selves, would the creationists still claim of an intelligent grand creator of the universe ?

I imagine they would think it a sign from God that everyone else (except for their particular religious group of course) has been wicked and thus are about to be destroyed. Much the same way Bible writers probably used the idolatry of the Israelites to rationalize their being conquered by a much larger nation, even though they were supposed to be "God's People."

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

Rev 9:10, 11:10, 14:10 20:10 The bible god put them there, for those that want to take them literally, and billions did, and some still do.

Perhaps I'm just not reading enough context but all of those verses with exception of the last one appear to me to still be talking about suffering for physical creatures, not spiritual ones.

added: Most likely your kind of an ideal universe, would have to be a static, sterile one, with no progression, handcrafted in one shot. by contrast

That's one way to put it I suppose, though it sounds kind of bleak when described like that, however, it does raise an interesting philosophical question. Which is better, an imperfect universe that grows, changes, and makes progress, or a perfect universe that has no need to ever change at all because progress is unnecessary under such conditions? While such a universe might sound boring to those of used to this one, it was in fact perfection wouldn't that necessitate that its denizens also find it in engaging?

But anyway I may be getting off of my own original topic with that line of thought. XD

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

Yet, JWs with money will typically be treated more favorably than those without, regardless of how much preaching either do.

I guess I've never personally observed this, but then again I don't think I've ever been in a congregation with a large wealth disparity among its members.

I have however noticed the shift in focus towards donations in past few years, in fact, I recall a Circuit Overseer saying something along the lines of, "we should have the people on our magazine routes trained to give us donations," and that never sat quite right with me. I can also recall at least a half-dozen votes in the past few years about passing resolutions concerning how much money our congregation sends the branch out of its local donations on top of what they received from the Worldwide Work. Those things bothered me a bit but I tried not to dwell on them, though I never did try to "train" my magazine calls to give me donations.

You are the best judge as to how your family would treat you. If they are the type that non attendance and no FS is equal to turning your back on Jehovah, then it maybe best to not worry about reinstatement just so you can walk away.

As far as that goes, I'm honestly not sure, I've got a few cousins who aren't really involved in the "truth" at all, and my family did attend their weddings and baby showers and such, but none of those cousins ever got baptized in the first place, so it may be completely different with me.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

I can think of bible passages that prove that pain and misery exist in that supposed biblical spirit realm too, even eternally. . right? so:

You can? I'm not familiar with them. Could you post them here?

We have to observe nature, its law's use it, and face reality. Pain might be more tolerable in many cases than we think, without predation, vegetarians would destroy the planet, the "design" is a balance. do not take suffering so personal. It is not getting any better than you can make it, that seems the message from the maker.

I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense, but that is also not the message that I've ever found in the Bible. It goes more along the lines of "rely on God to solve your problems... eventually."

I can certainly see that death and decay are needed for the systems of the universe, as they currently exist, to be balanced and progressive. Though I would still argue that an omnipotent god could make the balance work without death.