i've always found it difficult to put into words my true feelings and after 240 posts-i find it no easier.
i am not a good writer, nor will i ever be.
i feel most at home with brush in hand-allowing it to do my talking for me.
Yes, 7, I have Frederick. I got it on eBay....mint, signed, framed and triple-matted. Really good deal....nowhere near $4k (thank gawd).
I also was able to pick up Remington, Elmer and Loretta, Max in the Adirondacks, and an artist proof of Maggie the Messmaker.
I have Bonnie Marris' "Old Grey's Barn and Bistro", but I was never able to get Wolfsong. I like it though.
it has been an experience to say the least.
i accepted eagerly the teachings of the watchower bible and tract society over the last 7 years.
i have been a dedicated pioneer for four of those years.
SC,
I know that this must have been a difficult decision for you, but after reading your posts, I know that you gave it much thought and that you honestly feel you have taken the right steps.
Just remember, you have left an organization....you have not left God, nor has He left you.
i'm not sure if its my limited perspective, but i have heard the saying "elder's kids are the worst".. from my perspective, the saying appears to have much merrit.
if this is true, why would those who seemingly are raised in the "best possible environment" and who would in theory be raised in harmony with the society's direction (good "spiritual routine" , meetings, service, family study etc) turn out the worst?.
could it be that an elder's schedule is too busy for his family?
Hmmmm.....interesting question.
I've been thinking back on the elders' children with which I've been acquainted over the years, and I think that they cover the full spectrum of behavior from exemplary to horrendous.
I do think that elders' children are scrutinized more carefully, and their foibles are more apt to be noticed.
One daughter of an elder grew up to be an absolute snob due to her position in "the royal family".
Another, however, from a different family, was an absolutely lovely young woman who was intelligent, sweet and kind.
The family that strikes me most, however, belonged to an elder who was one of the really good ones. He was meek and kind and tried his best to help the members of the congregation.
He probably didn't spend enough time with his family because he spread himself way too thin. He was constantly trying to help someone in the congregation, and I know that it caused problems in his own family.
He had three children. His daughter always tended to have the "princess" syndrome. One of his sons DID go wild when he grew up. Thinking about his second son, however, still saddens me.
This young man tried to be the perfect witness. He was smart and funny, a good friend, a caring, loving son. He pioneered and was always there to help someone in need.
He had one problem, however, that he tried to hide, but which we always suspected....he was gay.
After we all grew up and went our separate ways, I lost track of this young man. His family moved quite far away, and I hadn't seen him for years.
I was recently trying to locate old friends through the internet, and I found one friend who had kept in touch with him. She told me that he died of AIDS five years ago.
His father, the elder, never abandoned his gay son, even though he received a LOT of repercussions for doing so. I think that this man is what an elder should be.
ok, since it was so easy to get on here i'm assuming that this place is also over run by wts critics...but anyway!.
i've read a plenty of wt mags and got sucked in enough by the whole thing to go to a few meetings and do a bible study( which i wouldn't really call a study, since we just read one of their books).i soon broke of the whole thing and didn't even read another mag for about 6 years...6 months ago i wandered into h20 out of curiosity and ended up reading up on the arguments against the wts.. i have a simple question, and its probably very naive to ask this...but why is wts so afraid of debate?...there are plenty of sites arguing against the wts...but none for, apart the official site which doesn't address the issues raised by so called "apostates" anyway.. if the wt has the the truth why dont they just refute the the arguments against them instead of shutting up shop and labelling anyone who questions them an "apostate?
" or from satan or something.. i'm really beginning to think that all this wt business is just waste of time, that if i were to go to kh and ask questions that i have, i'm more likely to be labelled a trouble making agent of satan rather than be taken at face value as someone with serious questions.
This is so true. You learn very quickly never to "go ahead of the FDS" and never bring out ANY point at the meeting that isn't just paraphrasing the literature.
Any research is supposed to be done with the Society's publications.....never outside sources.
It's easier to control people this way.
[url] http://www.ripnet.org/navoy.htm[/url].
i know there are examples of this type out here.
trust me i will find them
i've always found it difficult to put into words my true feelings and after 240 posts-i find it no easier.
i am not a good writer, nor will i ever be.
i feel most at home with brush in hand-allowing it to do my talking for me.
7, have you ever checked out Charles Wysocki or Bonnie Marris?
I don't know if you like the American Folk style of painting or animals, but these two and several other artists whose names I can't recall right now have some wonderful works.
I've picked up some signed lithographs on eBay...now I'm saving up to get them framed LOL
I love Wysocki's cat prints. They are so whimsical (and I love animals, anyway). My favorite is "Frederick the Literate" with Frederick asleep on a bookshelf filled with classics such as "A Tale of Two Kitties".
i've always found it difficult to put into words my true feelings and after 240 posts-i find it no easier.
i am not a good writer, nor will i ever be.
i feel most at home with brush in hand-allowing it to do my talking for me.
I love Van Gogh. Of course, all I can afford are the cheap prints, but I have Starry Night, Irises, and Sunflowers.
i've found it quite interesting talking to several young ones who lead double lives.
the sad thing is, i don't find these ones so wicked.
i find them basically good kids who got a little messed up because no one had any time for them, or attempts to relate were rather lame.. the irony is that while talking to one while he was smoking a cigarette, out of nowhere he says, "but i still believe its the truth".
waiting,
Very good points. It has always bothered me that someone who commits a "sin" is cut off. Presumably, disfellowshipping is supposed to result in the person's seeing how much they are missing so that they repent and regain acceptance.
However, in many cases the person requires more attention in order to overcome problems. Although the ruling against worldly therapists has been relaxed, it is still difficult for many people to seek this kind of help.
Especially in the case of teenagers, disfellowshipping serves no purpose. Teenagers are prone to testing the waters, and adding the huge amount of guilt and fear of abandonment does nothing to help them mature properly. The only thing I can see it accomplishing is to make them much more adept at lying.
In my own case, I didn't go through the rebellion stage as a teenager, but rather when I reached my mid-twenties. A lot of the problems I encountered were due to lack of any "worldly" knowledge...or street smarts. I found myself in situations that I could not handle.
The guilt and sense of failure was so overwhelming that I saw no way out but to attempt suicide. The elders through this whole thing were more concerned with how they looked to the "world" than with helping to comfort a sister.
press release from bethel.
thu jun 15 20:22:08 2000. .
statement to the media (june 14, 2000).
Yada, yada.....same thing.....slightly different slant....obviously to avoid any litigation that they feared might be coming from this.
The change still means that now JW's can truthfully say that no one is {b]expelled from the organization for taking blood. This sounds much better to the world.
However, the result is the same.....expulsion from the congregation and shunning....but this time it will be the person's own decision.
The PR machine rides again. It once more comes down to, who cares what the Bible actually says or what God actually wants[/b], as long as the BOrg retains control, looks good to the world, and remains immune from litigation.
ok, since it was so easy to get on here i'm assuming that this place is also over run by wts critics...but anyway!.
i've read a plenty of wt mags and got sucked in enough by the whole thing to go to a few meetings and do a bible study( which i wouldn't really call a study, since we just read one of their books).i soon broke of the whole thing and didn't even read another mag for about 6 years...6 months ago i wandered into h20 out of curiosity and ended up reading up on the arguments against the wts.. i have a simple question, and its probably very naive to ask this...but why is wts so afraid of debate?...there are plenty of sites arguing against the wts...but none for, apart the official site which doesn't address the issues raised by so called "apostates" anyway.. if the wt has the the truth why dont they just refute the the arguments against them instead of shutting up shop and labelling anyone who questions them an "apostate?
" or from satan or something.. i'm really beginning to think that all this wt business is just waste of time, that if i were to go to kh and ask questions that i have, i'm more likely to be labelled a trouble making agent of satan rather than be taken at face value as someone with serious questions.
Martini,
I would be overjoyed to have a part in the service meeting. I just MIGHT be able to tell everyone precisely why I'm not pioneering right now (hehehehe)