Posts by ExBethelitenowPIMA

So there are two distinct groups on here, one says there is no evidence of intelligent design so it must have been chance origin of the universe and there is the other group who says there is still no clear evidence of chance as the origin so it must have been intelligently originated.

The third group is like me PIMA. Agnosticism means you doubt either option will have proof presented. Both groups claim to have have proof but it can all be argued against that it’s not actually proof of their theory but actually proof of the opposing theory.

I still wonder was I happier when I was fully PIMI? I think I was.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Is Karen Lloyd?

if not which interview did she do with him? Can anyone find an interview Lloyd did with someone called Karen?

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

This is what I said three months ago -

ExBethelitenowPIMA3 months ago

I haven’t read any books on biological evolution

but I do read a lot of books on many subjects and I think you shouldn’t need to have long complicated books if it could be proven then we evolved then it would be easy to prove through the fossil records

but it no the fossil record shows no evolutionary changes at all

ancient fossils are no change from same creatures today.

this is true I have confirmed it. The fossil record shows no evolution the fossils are the exact same as the same creatures today

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Are you being awkward on purpose Coffey? There is no need to be so aggressive defending your faith we all have a right to believe whatever we want.

As I have said I have read many books making the argument that the origin of the universe was chance not intelligent design. I don’t think I have read any specific books on biological evolution that you were talking about three months ago because the theory is always changing.

I suspect the latest theory will be debunked and in the future these biological evolution theories will be replaced with most theories and you may be asking me “what you have never read any books on the new common ancestor theory of chance at the start of everything?”

Maybe there was a common ancestor that all life evolved from I don’t think we will ever know for sure but that doesn’t answer the question of where the first ever cell came from? Or where the things that made the first ever cell came from?

was it intelligent design? I don’t know and neither does anyone be very wary of anyone claiming they absolutely know the truth.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Cofty I have read many books promoting chance evolution that one chap wanted me to read. I remember all the arguments about apes evolved into humans and I read the books and I’ve listened to countless podcasts and interviews by so called experts. I definitely look at both sides.

As I’ve said I’m agnostic which means I’m open to the possibility that the universe started by chance. But as far as I can see there still is no undeniable proof of this. The missing link still has not been found but if it ever is then I will not be agnostic anymore as now there would be proof. Any so called proof people like you present can be debunked.

Its just the same with intelligence as the origin of the universe. All the so called proof presented could be argued against.

At the end of the day people believe what they want to believe it’s very hard to remain objective.

I suspect if you are really honest with yourself you would say yes it’s true I tend to lean towards believing what I want to believe. If you were absolutely honest you would realise cognitive dissidence does make you think you have found proof of chance as the start when it’s not accurate

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

This is such an interesting subject that only those who have been physically in JWs at some point would ever understand.

Im looking for a way to be PIMA, agnostic means not to commit but keep that small amount of hope that the Bibles promises may have some truth to them. This is the same as PIMI’s all they have is hope of the Bibles promises.

But to have a plan B. If JWs are wrong about many things (I think almost certainly they are) don’t waste too much time as a PIMI would. Keep an open mind and stay objective.

Is it possible to only take the good things about staying physically in? I love all the social aspects the meeting and assemblies and meeting up with the friends but hate knocking on doors. So I often go to the ministry groups and the meet ups after but say I’m doing street work or letter writing in the park but never even do that, and often elders tell me off and say you really should do some first call. I will not be pushed into doing anything I don’t won’t to do. But I like going back for refreshments after.

But I’m seeing more and more doing less and less. So many younger brothers are being pushed to ‘reach out’ but they are not interested in that, but they like the friends in the congregation.

So what I see happening is a massive sea change in the Borg. My advice is enjoying the good things and find it interesting but don’t waste any time doing anything you don’t want to do. Don’t let them get into your mind keep your own mind when you read the Bible and always think it may be true or it may not be.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Tonis I do understand what you are saying but I think you are throwing in a lot of bad religious leaders in the same boat as the Bible when in fact they are in a complete different boat.

I know I sound like a PIMI JW but the more scientific discoveries there are the more science supports the Bible. They had no idea about DNA or bacteria when the Bible was written yet the Bible was right about these things long before modern discoveries show the Bible was way ahead of its time. You saw the embryo of me. In its book all my parts were down in writing this is DNA. All the laws about hygiene shows the Bible was right when they had no idea about these things for a long time maybe thousands of years after. As we know they believed the earth was flat on turtles and an elephant for a long after the Bible said it is a sphere hanging on nothing.

So Science and the Bible are in one boat and religion is in another. Personally I want to be in the boat with science and the Bible.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

I’m still open to the possibility of chance as the origin of the universe. I’m PIMA and as everyone knows agnostic means not willing to commit either way.

While considering the possibility of chance as the start of everything because that has some advantages, I also hold to a hope of intelligent design and the Bibles promises maybe coming true.

You can’t force me into any box, I think this is the best way to be happy. Take what is most beneficial to you at the time and always consider the possibility a certain belief maybe true or maybe not.

when you really think about it that is what PIMI JWs believe anyway. They have the hope of a resurrection, or the hope that they will be part of their great crowd that the Bible says will survive Armageddon. This is just a hope not a certainty.

I also have this hope being agnostic. This is the advantage of believing in intelligence at the start of the universe.

The advantages of believing in chance as a possibility (still agnostic) is that you won’t feel you wasted so much time believing something that wasn’t true which can really break some people.

Plan B as it were.

Just in case the Bible is not right, I won’t have any regrets reading it everyday and going deep studying it because it’s so interesting and beneficial.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Cofty I have read both side and watched countless videos, it would take far too long to go through all me or you have studied over the last few decades.

IMO it’s all been debunked