Posts by ExBethelitenowPIMA

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Yes please

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Cofty you and I both know that cognitive dissonance means you are closed minded. Both creationism and evolution both say please read these books. Yes I agree you should read both sides.

and there are only two side Cofty. It’s either chance theory or intelligence but I know you don’t like the fact there are only two options at the very origin.

If you are coming round to the idea of intelligence being involved that’s really great. But the very origin can only be chance or intelligence it has to be either of those.

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Phizzy I do want freedom of mind that’s why I don’t want to be misled. Have you even considered you are being misled?

If you won’t even consider it then you do not have freedom of mind.

I do have freedom of mind that’s why I’m keeping my mind open. It’s a good warning not be closed minded after waking up from any belief.

“The Road To Freedom of Mind is a journey, you should walk along that Road at your own pace.

But you MUST do your Homework ! Only accept that which has irrefutable evidence as being Truth along the way, some truths are hard to accept at first, but you soon adapt.”

very wise words indeed Phizzy. I will only accept irrefutable evidence which is why I can’t accept chance theory as the origin.

Ive talked with Cofty and others a lot on here and other places and they still can’t come up with any irrefutable evidence of chance theory. Some of the arguments are used by both chance theorists and creationists.

Phizzy if you think you have found irrefutable evidence of chance theory could you share it here in a concise pithy way? Please don’t do a Cofty and tell to read this or that book because the book can prove it but you can’t.

But then this has been tried as infinitum and people have spent their entire lives trying to prove chance or intelligence as the origin and this is why I’m agnostic I’m past all that.

I have taken a number of decades or intense study to get where I am so I don’t like somebody talking to me as if I will get to chance theory eventually if I do enough study.

I have studied intensely about 16 years ago I went through a very intense time trying to prove chance theory.

I think once you go through the amount of study and thought process I went through you will eventually come to the conclusion that nothing can be proven and it’s all about cognitive dissonance. I think that is what you are experiencing now Phizzy and please bear in mind I am saying this with the highest respect.

You believe what you want to believe and you search out things that support your belief system.

My way is to truly Walk The Road To Freedom of Mind and it is a journey, you should walk along that Road at your own pace.

But you MUST do your Homework ! Only accept that which has irrefutable evidence as being Truth along the way, some truths are hard to accept at first, but you soon adapt.

Be very careful believing you have irrefutable proof when you don’t and re examine without cognitive dissonance which is very very difficult. I know it may be hard to accept that what you previously believed to be irrefutable is actually refutable.

124

JWLITE

by Teddnzo in

jw
friends

even elders can be part of the new jw lite brigade these days.

they don’t need to go on door to door anymore and there is no requirement for anything really.. taking meeting parts is all dead easy you could turn up on the day with zero preparation because it’s all in the meeting workbook.. quarterly elders meetings are just old men having a good old natter just like old men do down the pub.. congregations could be likened to pubs or bars these days just without the drinks, those come at other times.. no need for territory maps, these almost went away with covid letter writing now they are extremely slow getting finished as those who still go door to door only do ten mins.. you could even voice your questions these days about things the gb say and then just say “we can’t be dogmatic we just don’t know”.

i predict they will say this about 1914 soon..

ExBethelitenowPIMA

I don’t know about that. The WTower study last Sunday openly talked about the fact that many young ones doubt the doctrine. P5 said “teenager I started to doubt my parents were teaching me the true religion and that the Bible was inspired by God”

They really are talking about this openly. And the answer is calm discussions in the congregation.

This is the new JWLITE

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Snareandaracket thank you for your post I have read at least 2 of those and am somewhat familiar with more, and I will put them on my reading list which is growing faster than I’m getting through them. I’m reading two books a week on average 100 books per year.

Here is my question coming from a previous JW PIMI now PIMA, what is the point of any kind of morality if it’s all blind chance?

If I put myself into that atheist box, I have maybe a few decades left then what is the point of morals? After all it’s survival of the fittest right? There is no God or anything else out there if the origin of the universe was just blind chance. This is a very depressing box to put yourself into.

No I will not put myself into that box but I will keep reading and thinking. It may be true it may not be, but I will not lose hope in the Bible even if I have lost faith in it.

Right now I think there is a chance the Bible is written by God but we just don’t get it as much as we think we do.

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Stan my hope that there is something better, that there is purpose and meaning behind everything.

If you put yourself in the box of blind chance evolution atheist then there is nothing it’s all pointless.

You may as well go and steal and scam people, it’s all just blind chance anyway.

No I will not put myself in that box. Yes it’s true I can’t prove you are wrong which is why I’m agnostic but I still have hope there is something better out there.

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

I’m going through this crisis right now desirusofchange. It’s actually very very hard for me.

This is why I’m not going to put myself into that box, I’m not going to let anyone rob me of my hope.

You can’t prove to me that there is no God so a Ty you are also PIMA just like me going by the true definition of agnostic

26

How frequent is this among Jehovah's Witnesses

by vienne in

my grandmother, an immigrant from austria, was.

two of my aunts, their husbands, both elders, various cousins and two of my sisters are witnesses.

so is my grand uncle.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

It is a problem of elderly ones getting older and who’s responsible for taking care of them?

some adult children think they don’t need to and the congregation should for them. Most congregations do the best they can, we have a good system in our congregation with rotas where we all take it in turns calling round helping faithful older ones.

especially if they have been in the heart of congregation for many years.

It’s very hard to get it fair for everyone. There are problems of some getting more help than others. And some getting neglected.

has anyone got any suggestions how to have a system that is fair all round?

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Phizzy thank you so much for your post I really appreciate it.

The truth is I’m going through a real crisis trying to get my head round what you said here “Please give consideration to this, find Truth, real truth as I have defined above, your life will be enriched, and you will be on the Road To Freedom Of Mind.”

If I am to accept what that book and many others like it says that chance was the origin of everything then I lose all hope of the Bibles wonderful promises. Please explain how that would enrich my life?

I realise I don’t have a strong faith in the Bibles promises but I do have hope. Being agnostic at least leaves me some hope of something better. This to me is the ultimate freedom. Both intelligent design or chance boxes are not freedom of thought if you totally disregard the other completely, in my opinion either option you put yourself into a box.

If you believe the chance theory there is no hope of anything better. You have maybe a few decades left of this life and then that’s it you’re dead. No purpose to anything. Life is meaningless. How is this on the road to freedom of mind? You are putting yourself in that box that Darwin and others created !

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

“This is true, I have not really thought about it in the terms you are putting it here. I also was raised a JW, pioneered, went to Bethel, and served as an elder for decades so we have a similiar experience, at least in these ways.

Since I am also PIMO,”

I’m not PIMO that’s the difference, I’m PIMA. Mentally agnostic

im sitting on the fence because if there is a God then I think the JWs are nearest to the truth from the Bible even though I think they are wrong on many things.