Posts by caves

17

Why do Jehovah`s Witnesses Shun fellow believers When God and Jesus never shunned even Satan ?

by smiddy3 in

scholars generally agree that it was written between the 7th and 4th centuries bce, with the 6th century bce as the most likely period for various reasons.

the book of job .. so according to jw`s about 6,000 years ago satan rebelled against jehovah god ,did jehovah disown him there and then shunning him ?.

apparently not as we can read from the book of job centuries later that satan could still come and go freely before the throne of jehovah in heaven .job 1: 6. and apparently he could still do this for centuries later ,that is coming to and fro before jehovah because according to the jw religion he wasn`t cast out of heaven for another 2,000 years until the 20th century .. now in the case of jesus much of what is said about jehovah and satan also applies to jesus before he came to earth.. but even when he was on earth he didn`t shun satan either in fact he allowed satan to lead him around according to the bible account.luke 4:13 so the devil having concluded all the temptations retired from him until another convenient time .so it wasn`t jesus calling the shots here it was satan .. mark 1: 13 he ,jesus, also shared 40 days in the wilderness with satan letting him tempt him .. so their was no way either jehovah or jesus ever shunned satan the devil according to the bible writings.. and when jesus ascended to heaven after his sacrifice he along with his father jehovah still had association with satan the devil until he was cast out of heaven 2,000 years later ,according to the jw`s..

caves

MeanMrMustard- LOL

Smiddy3- I use to ask these types of questions growing up. No wonder it seemed I was always in trouble. I was just using logic and was to little to know that I wasn't supposed to (in the jw org). In time, it warped me into thinking that my logic was flawed. Something that has had deep tentacles in my mind causing me all sorts of unnecessary blips in life. Its taken sooooo long to trust my own gut and logic.

Im sure in answer to the question a jw would probably say that "only jehovah knows". Or that "he is jehovah , that's why". Kind of like a parent that always says "because I said so". Yet never explains why, because the 'why' is a control issue and they must have it to be right.

10

Ever wonder how to be "saved" as a JW?

by sir82 in

i was searching for something on the wt online library, and was struck by all the requirements a jw has in order to be "saved".. want to see a partial list?

all these found by searching for "salvation depends" on wol.

just do all 26 things, and you too can be saved!.

caves

Oh, and I just simply adore the scripture that they use. "Do all these things and probably you will be concealed in the day of jehovahs anger."

Probably! Oh hell no! jeho has got me totally 'f'ed up!

39

My sister just sent me this text.

by Brainfloss in

my sister sent me this text a few minutes ago.

what does she know about my relationship with jehovah?

it was followed up by a bunch of links to jw org problem is dialog is not possible her side is the only one to be heard.

caves

I have personally found that the only satisfying answer they want to hear is how right they are. Something like, 'Hi , My dear sister, you are so right, thanks to your reaching out its like jehovah answered my prayers, I was literally in prayer when your text come through asking for forgiveness and taking steps to contact my local elders so that I may come back to jehovahs loving protection."

What seems to make them flip is no contact/response what so ever at all.

They are going to make up in their mind how superior they are and how "worldly,sinning, under demonic influence, lost spiritually dead, and hopeless you are". no matter what you say.

I see no sense in giving them anything to feed on one way or the other. Its my own personal way of saying "f you " with out saying it. Drives them up the wall.

51

YOU are the Proof God exists!

by MuchCloserLook in

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caves

Oh yeah welcome to the forum Finkle- you appear to be a Master of ASSumption!

You can totally add my name if it helps you.

Cofty was being super nice with you. Cofty could have easily ripped you to shreds with logic and data. Yet he was willing to be patient and you completely shit on him.

Now now, is that how you treat a person when you are in service? ~~Jehovah~~ Satan would be pleased.

Don't you have some houses to pick out from your neighbors that die in Armageddon or something?

After that maybe you could come back with some facts to back up your incoherent babble.

41

EVERY Religion has Hypocrites- even the TRUE One!

by MuchCloserLook in

so, if you expect to find 'saints' with halos, you will never find real christians.. after over 30 years of being a jw, there are many things about the org that disturb me- yet no one else even acknowledges the only true god, as jesus referred to him.. not a 'they' or 'them' ('trinity')- but him!and he has always had the name jehovah (yehovah in hebrew)- even though the koine greek had no version of it when the nt was written.. so among the many things real christians have to endure- is often each other!

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caves

While your counting service time, I'll give you more.

After over 30 years of being a JW, there are MANY things about the ORG that disturb me- yet NO ONE ELSE even ACKNOWLEDGES the Only True God, as Jesus referred to Him.

There are so many religions that refer to god as 'Jehovah' throughout their entire discourses. So there goes that basic premise you started on. Do your research. Or do you still let the GB tell you what you can and cant read?

Not only has the bible been translated so many times. There are also books missing from the bible. 13 or more. You might be surprised whats in them.

The NWT was written by men who didn't even know Hebrew or Greek but lied and said they did. But they said they did not under oath. How you can trust any religion that does that is beyond my comprehension.

You said there are many things that disturb you bout the borg. Interesting.

What do you find disturbing?

Is it the known fact they hide pedophiles?

Is it the known fact that they had their UN card , you know the beast?

Is it all the 'worldly' stocks and bonds they are invested in. Like oil and tobacco?

Is is the light that gets brighter but dims and goes dark and gets brighter again?

Is it the shunning of someone that kissed someone 'in the heat of the moment' yet a pedophile goes free and gets to sit right next to little kids at the hall?

Is it the countless members who died needing a blood transfusion before they said blood fractions where okay?

Is it the Mansion they bought in California to house dead prophets when they came back to life?

Sounds like the "things to endure for ~~real jw Christians"~~ are Cognitive dissonance.

I'm glad we were able to help you put some time in for the month. You can count me as a return visit. lol

24

My dad is now a ministerial servant tonight

by Wagurl in

my dad just became mistrial servant should i move out i’m almost 18. what the hell should i do?

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caves

Nathan,

What you posted needed to be said.

Wagurl, I would really ponder on what Nathan posted.

Smiles had a really good point about , if your father has just been appointed ministerial servant then 'spiritual weakness' is probably not on the radar in your congregations mind.

That does give you an advantage. I personally, if I were in your shoes and based on what you've said so far AND considering the global pandemic, stay put. It may not seem like it now ( unless you are being abused) but it seems like staying for a while would/could be really beneficial. Financially and some sense of structure too.

The lesson that you can apply to almost all areas of your life is the ability to stick it out, and "fake it till you make it." It is something that no matter who you are in life, it will be applicable. There are so many times in life that one MUST put up with stuff they do not like for the sake of the long term goal. ie money, education(I hated the way some of my professors taught, but I needed those credits). I have disliked some of the rules of flats that I've rented, yet I had to grin a bear it ...until I got out. Not many people on this earth are immune to those kinds of things. You just might thank yourself in the long run. Its a skill that took me years longer to understand. This might be a good opportunity for a crash course, so to speak.

Another example is working on a job. You may (probably will) in life encounter some buttholes that you have to maintain the peace with, to get to the next steps of your life unfolding and a paycheck for bills ect. This is good practice. Again, it will/may be really uncomfortable but the pay off could very well be worth it in terms of learning how to deal with less than desirable circumstances that arise in life. The time will pass faster than you know. Though it wont feel like it now. But it will pass. Ask any of us. At your age life seems to drag on, but that will not always be the case. One day 2ys ,5yrs, 10 years from now, you will wonder how it all went by so quickly. The best is yet to come Wagurl. Hang in there.

17

Reversed Shunning

by Difido in

i dont post really.

probably because i'm full of discord and shame about this religion.

i'm embarrassed, but working thru it.

caves

Difido, I can absolutely relate what you wrote.

Personally I was embarrassed 100% of having been a jw. So I didn't tell anyone much. I had to eventually get some therapy in my case. Even when I started posting here on this forum I felt shame wash over me and I struggled big time with those feelings. I didn't see that one coming. So I totally get that.

As far as reverse shunning. This is what I feel I embody as a person in regards my jw bio family and old jw friends that shunned me. I realized that after all my reaching out and being scapegoated and hurt thousands of times to many, I had to take my stance. I kind of secretly judged myself for shunning them in return. Now I don't. What peace of mind I may have left, I'd like to keep it.

I felt/feel like the damage is to extensive and even forgiveness pushes me to far. Some things it may not be healthy to 'forgive and forget'. I don't have to walk around pissed at them, but I sure as heck have control over what they know about me and control over whether or not I talk to any of them. I choose to not talk to them, any of them. Like I said, for my own peace of mind. And maybe their protection .lol.just keeping it real.

What I struggle with time to time is, I do get nostalgic thinking about some of the past and for a brief moment, I feel like saying hello to some of them. Then when my mind goes there I am suddenly off of those nostalgic thoughts and have to inject a bit of 'past results from that way of thinking' to snap me out of it. Which is a bit painful but I'm getting a lot better at it and turning those thoughts around much more quickly. It can be a challenge. Sure has been one for me.

Not sure if that made sense, just wanted you to know you are definitely not alone.

19

Disunited States of America?

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

recognizing that their states have one integrated regional economy, delaware governor john carney, new york governor andrew m. cuomo, new jersey governor phil murphy, connecticut governor ned lamont, pennsylvania governor tom wolf, and rhode island governor gina raimondo today announced the creation of a multi-state council to restore the economy and get people back to work.

this announcement builds on the states’ ongoing regional approach to combatting the covid-19 pandemic.. the coordinating group – comprised of one health expert, one economic development expert and the respective chief of staff from each state — will work together to develop a fully integrated regional framework to gradually lift the states’ stay at home orders while minimizing the risk of increased spread of the virus.. https://news.delaware.gov/2020/04/13/governor-carney-and-five-governors-announce-multi-state-council-to-get-people-back-to-work-and-restore-the-economy/.

meanwhile on the west coast:.

caves

After backing off the news for a few days and much thought, I feel that Trumps actions (not tweets or the wording he uses) regarding this Covid-19 pandemic has been pretty good. He has shown some interesting resilience and dare I say, a bit of benevolence. Actions do speak louder than words.

In regards the the question- Disunited States of America ?

I personally don't think the US is as divided as the media makes it out to be. I think before the age of instant communication, the people of the US have thought these things (political divided view points) and communicated them with their friends, family and peer group. To me it only seems "in your face" because its instant and much of the internet political, talk takes place anonymously.

Example - I remember when Bush Jr. was in office and I cant tell you how many people I knew threw or organized rallies in opposition to his policies. I even attended some, as some of those people were my close friends and I supported their right to express whatever they felt. They knew my stance on Bush Jr. , which was I liked him. They didn't seem to mind. So we were divided in politics but never as friends. Never before did I feel so close to people as I did then. To have differing views and still have each others back despite it.

I'm seeing that now. I have a friend, a couple of them in fact, that we just don't agree with the others stance at all. One I just hung out with yesterday and we briefly chatted about it and moved on with our day together (6ft apart). Another friend we have mutually decided that our friendship is much to precious to talk politics so we don't and low and behold we still love each other and check in to make sure the other is okay.

There are basic brass tack human emotions and needs that have nothing to do with politics. It is those places I see (choose to see) that I will continue to find common ground on a human level.

No big deal and this is not a humble brag at all but I've met Bush Jr. and Sr. on Bush Jr's ranch near Crawford, TX at a function. I can tell you that that dude works his butt off in the hot sun both on his ranch and serving the people (like a waiter) that were his guests. What you see on TV isn't always the best gauge of a person behavior or actions. Bush's private personality is really playful and funny.

Never met Trump but I can tell you that I have known some really spoiled rich trust fund babies that took their parents money and never hung out with them much less agree with/or align with them except for a handout of money. I do see Trump protecting his younger son from the media. I do see all of his adult kids in lock step with him. And he protects his wife from media onslaught. That speaks volumes, like it or not.

We are not as divided as the media makes it out to be.

------------------------

So can a US President unilaterally declare war? No. But do the same thing and call it a conflict or something and you are good to go.

There is much pressure behind a President to declare anything. It comes from many different angles. This seems to provide an accurate breakdown on war declarations in the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

27

Epicurean Paradox

by Tahoe in

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caves

Nice chart.

I was thinking the other day, if I remember correctly, that according to jws that Michael (Jesus) helped create the other angels and if that is true then Jesus created Satan. Would that make Jesus Satan's father of sorts? Now that Jesus is king according to jws, Jesus is advancing war on his creation, his son, Satan.

Conversely if jeho made Satan then they(jesus) and (satan) are brothers. In any case, thinking on it its so completely wack to me.

But so is jeho putting a tree in the Garden of Eden that you couldn't eat from as a "test". Yet jeho doesn't want to be tested himself. Such crap. Especially minuscule weak humans. How in the world could a human possibly "test" this jehovah as he is advanced in the jw beliefs? Oh wait, Satan did and then jeho passed the buck off to little itty bitty humans? Insane god!

Making believe it (the bible crap) happened, If I were an angel. I would have made that snake talk too.

I look back now and just shake my head.

38

Has Anyone Had Chinese Food Lately?

by minimus in

jw
friends

since this virus, i have noticed that nearly all of the take out joints in my area are closed.

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caves

2+2=5, LOL. Your comment tickled me.

Minimus-In Arkansas, do they really have good Chinese food?

As someone who lived many years in Arkansas, they have 'Chinese' food if thats what they want to call it. So bland. If there are good Chinese restaurants in AR I have never had any. They have some good Thai places.

To answer the question. No I haven't. Missing it. There's a place in town that I would go to because its relatively good and the servings could feed a small village. One take out meal would last me 3 days. But they are closed.

I try to steer away from 'made in china' as much a I can, when I can. I try to buy German as much as possible. German things are made to last, such good quality. I also tend to buy Spain and Italian products as well when I'm able.