Yes, I saw that after I posted.....
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RevMalk
JoinedPosts by RevMalk
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121
Ray Franz Key Witness?!
by qwerty inthis may have been a topic before on the board.
it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.
would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?
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RevMalk
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148
Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen
by Amazing ini talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.
he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.
it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.
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RevMalk
Imagine if we all put this amount of time and effort into the cause. Damn! No-one could stop us then.......if only..... Why don't we let Bill and Ray hash it out for crying out load. It was a misunderstanding or something, who knows who cares.....All this time and energy wasted. I bet a small JW child is being hurt right now while we all bicker and fight........What a shame. A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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121
Ray Franz Key Witness?!
by qwerty inthis may have been a topic before on the board.
it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.
would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?
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RevMalk
Is it me? Is it me?? A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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115
President Bush's speech
by Mulan ini wanted to hear the president's speech tonight, but can't stand listening to the man.
he has a prepared speech but he keeps saying nuc-you-lar instead of nuc-le-ar.
i can't stand it.. you would think his people would walk him through correct pronunciation.
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RevMalk
Ok, so you have good point regarding the Patriot Act. But Trauma, this wasn't the issue in the first place. Remember that I made a factual statement, you disagreed, treated me like an idiot, and then was proven wrong wrong wrong? Yes, I think so. A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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Silentlambs, The Letter, The World, and Justice.
by BeautifulGarbage infirst off, let me express that bill bowen would not know me from any stranger on the street.
i have never spoken with him, or have i ever corresponded with him.
the only information that i have of him is what i have read of him on this forum and on silentlambs.org.
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RevMalk
Don't you people know this is all way too much for me to read? Is it too much to ask that you cater to me when typing your messages??? A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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121
Ray Franz Key Witness?!
by qwerty inthis may have been a topic before on the board.
it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.
would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?
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RevMalk
The more I think about this, the less it seems like a big deal. Ok, let's look at it like this. What if it's true that Ray Franz supports the Watchtower policy? What if he agrees that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing? I don't care who you are, if you support that policy, then you're sick. We've all (most of us) been sitting here freaking out and attacking this guy for making a statement based on an alleged conversation he claims he had directly with Franz. On top of that, statements he's "heard" second hand. IF, he really had this conversation with Ray, and IF Ray really said these things, than I don't blame him a bit for making the statements he made. I don't particularly understand why the need is there for Ray Franz to "Actively" support silentlambs, but IF he really feels this way about the way these abuse cases are handled, than that's some messed up stuff (pardon my huge vocabulary). Anyway, point is, if it comes out that Ray Franz really said these things, and believes these things, then I guess there are alot of us that owe Bill and the silentlambs a huge apology. So my suggestion is to hold off until someone calls someone who knows someone who knows Ray, and find out for us, and put this mess to bed. (And get a tape recording too, will ya?) By the way, Bill is out of the country, so don't anybody go freaky now if he doesn't reply within the next week A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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JW at Dr's office
by VeniceIT intoday i was sitting in the waiting room to get a check up and the other lady in there is sitting with a bound volume on her lap, studying her km, and she had a lil bible with her.
i think it was in french, not sure i didn't speak to her because i didn't want to affect her blood pressure .
i just felt so sad seeing her sitting there, racing, and instead of being able to relax a bit in the office, she had to sit and study, it kind of made me sick in the stomach thinking about all that running around we had to do.
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RevMalk
All that studying would be marvelous except for one thing. They are False Prophets Span by Satan Must suck to be so wrong A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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Mormons ELECT their ELDERS
by refiners fire in"relief society study guide.
" 1989 version.
article: "by common consent".
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RevMalk
refiners fire:
Why, the raising of hands is not a "vote" at all. It is no more than a physical action, a commitment signal, and public sign that we agree to OBEY the leader who has been nominated by the GOD Directed organization.
Refiners,
From what I know of the Mormon Religion, everything is supposedly through God and by God. For instance, I recently read a quote, I think it was from their President. He told his people that when the Church receives a revelation, they should not just believe that as Gospel without first asking God themselves, and he even went on to say that until they do this, their God has commanded them to NOT to put merit into that teaching or revelation. Also, he mentioned not to teach the revelation as Gospel until you've done this as well. He even said not to trust his word should he have a Revelation, and to treat his teachings as hearsay until the Lord himself has revealed it's truth. He claims to be an imperfect man, and his word is only good when making Revelation, but to not trust that for yourself. I was quite impressed with that. I mean, who else tells you "Don't believe a word I say unless God administers the fact himself".
Anyway, so I am assuming that this is a similar thing. The flock does have a vote, and I think they're saying that part of the proof of the person in question being appointed by God is a unanimous decision. I can't imagine that if half the congregation raised their hands and half didn't they'd go ahead and appoint the person, but I could be wrong. It's just this whole thing with the Mormons, they have this group effort thing going on, and everything is always double checked (supposedly) individually through their God, on a person scale. Hence the:
"The act of sustaining (raising the hand) is an INDIVIDUAL EXPRESSION. We are responsible to know thru the confirmation of the spirit that who we are asked to sustain is the mind and will of the Lord"
I think this means that the Holy Spirit is guiding the congregation, and they should accept that guidance, and take it seriously. I don't know if these things are all that effective, but at least they get a say (while being Guided by God). I don't think it's contradicting itself here, I think the point they're getting at is that their Prophets must be appointed by God if they put it to the test to this extent, and hey, they might just have a point, I don't know.
Any Mormons around here that can clarify this?
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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121
Ray Franz Key Witness?!
by qwerty inthis may have been a topic before on the board.
it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.
would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?
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RevMalk
Bill, I think you've done the right thing here with your detailed message. You stated the way you feel, and why you feel this way. I for one appreciate it. I agree that once you believe in the cause, you should do something about it, otherwise how can you sleep at night. I don't know if everyone should follow the silentlambs organization, as that's a personal decision that everyone must make for themselves, but we should all be doing something. I think what happens here is that you post a message, everyone jumps all over it without knowing all facts (and I am just as guilty as any), but the initial posts are not long, and not specific. If Ray Franz does not want to support the silentlambs cause, than so what. If he supports the WT policy than shame on him, but not my problem, he'll meet his maker just like I will. Ray Franz shouldn't even be an issue here, silentlambs doesn't need him, silentlambs has the truth. Would a guy like Ray be able to help the cause? Perhaps, but so what, so would a word here and there from President Bush (Mulan, how do you think Bush pronounces "Pedophile"? haha). Anyway, who cares about all this, we could all be doing something productive right now.
I'm not sure your fading into the background is needed, or even a good idea.....surely I think it's a bad idea. You have the bravery and heart to get this going, and you need to keep it going. You might take this suggestion for your own peace of mind and protection. I suggest you set up a board of directors. You still take the lead, but having a board of directors to work with you would relieve some of this hassle. Then at the very least everyone would have several to scream upon rather than just you :) Perhaps you've already planned such a thing, but I thought I'd mention it anywayBill:
As many have stated more need to come forward and get involved in the support of silentlambs and I would certainly welcome fading into the background and let more of a collective carry this load.
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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121
Ray Franz Key Witness?!
by qwerty inthis may have been a topic before on the board.
it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.
would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?
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RevMalk
Wow, I don't know what to say. I have no idea who's right or wrong. I have no idea what Ray has said concerning silentlambs or the WT policy, but whatever it was, it was in private, hearsay even (unless he told Bill this himself, but then it's still hearsay to us). Is it possible he agrees with the policy.....sure anything is possible. But I think it not wise to slam a guy in a public forum like this. The last big silentlambs controversy, some of us, in support of Bill suggested that if someone had a problem with him (Bill) or his tactics, perhaps they should contact him in private. I think the same should go for anyone including Ray. Besides that fact, to be a good leader you must have the balls to make controversial statements, but with the balance and level headedness to know when not to. For the silentlambs cause, it does not matter what Ray Franz thinks or says (unless he says them publicly). A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
Edited by - Revmalk on 9 October 2002 19:48:51