Posts by RevMalk

15

Question about member numbers

by betweenworlds in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone knew how the jehovah's witnesses stand as far as there numbers go in regards to other *newer* religions such as the mormons, the moonies, the adventists, scientologists, etc?.

i was wondering because this is a point that jw's will use when pointing that they are gods people.

(the fact that their numbers have climbed so quickly in a relatively short period of time, so they must have god's direction, blessing) of course i think this is hooey!

RevMalk

Mulan,

Yes, you have that right, they sure don't count their dead. I thought so for a long time, of course my minister dad swears that they do. The problem with the theory that they count the baptized dead is that if they did they'd have a hell of alot more than 11 or 12 million members. Even if you could imagine only 1 million living on earth today, and knowing that one of the most important things in their religion is baptizing their ancestors, and say they baptized a total of 20 ancestors a piece, we'd then be up to 20 million already, and we know the average number of ancestors is probably over 20, and we can safely assume that there's more than a million living now in Utah alone. Although, the fact that they all have 20 kids a piece can account for some of the numbers, even if they only count them after 8. I was asking a missionary about this recently, and he explained it all to me (although I came up with my happy little calculations myself :), and he said something that impressed me. He said "We do have around 12 million currently but we don't worry too much about that like other religions might. We know that the road to everlasting life is narrow, so we're not judging our truth on numbers". I do wonder though, why the numbers are rising so fast, they don't go door to door like JW's do......they have their missionaries, but the amount of total hours spent has to be much lower than the watchtower over-all, so what is it that they have? What's the difference between to two? Maybe it's the Christmas thing....I have spent some time researching their faith, never coming to any kind of conclusion about them. Perhaps you can shed some light on them. Are they just as fake and false as the JW's? I'm not one to give up totally on organized religion because of one bad apple. And I remember as a small child questioning my (parents) religion. I could never figure out who died and made them boss. I had it in my head at a young age that if and when Christ re-organized his church on earth it would be of a much more spiritual and divine nature, and not just some Pastor deciding one day that Jesus had taken his thrown and appointed him our savior. I became intrigued with the LDS faith a few years ago when I realized they existed, and when I realized that supposedly their faith began just as I imagined it should. I also became intrigued to realize they didn't believe that God is going to destroy anyone at Armageddon, and that is also a belief I've held onto for a long time. I suppose if I hadn't been used and abused by one false prophet I might even be more interested in the Mormons, but we all know how that goes.

13

was adam and eve forgiven?

by Sangdigger in

this was the subject of a recent debate with myself and some jw family members.

i dont have all the info.

in front of me, but i will give you just two points that i used to lean toward the idea that they were in fact, forgiven.

RevMalk

I had to chime in here again, because I just noticed Farkel's comments. You have hit the nail right square on the head. Here's the facts we have pertaining to Adam and Eve:

1. They were not created with the ability to live forever (or else there would have been no need for the tree!)

2. They never ate from the Tree (of course not, they didn't live forever!)

3. God could NOT have prevented them from living forever had they eaten from that tree (otherwise he would not have rushed them out "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever")

4. Had God known or intended for this world to be perfect, and known that Adam and Eve would live forever, he would have made it that way.

Come on people, this is God we're talking about, he can do anything! He knew this was going to happen whether or not it was his plan or not! So why are we here? To learn! We HAD to eat from that tree of knowledge! They didn't know anything, they were babes, with no knowledge. You all better thank them for doing what they did, because if they hadn't you just might not even be here! If they couldn't comprehend that if they ate from that tree of life they'd live forever, then the Pro-Creating process might not have clicked very well either, so start thanking your lucky Stars because God works in mysterious ways and this is about as mysterious as you can get, but makes more sense than most theories on the subject!

Adam Sinned so that you might live!

2 more RevMalk cents :)

13

was adam and eve forgiven?

by Sangdigger in

this was the subject of a recent debate with myself and some jw family members.

i dont have all the info.

in front of me, but i will give you just two points that i used to lean toward the idea that they were in fact, forgiven.

RevMalk

In my VERY Humble opinion:

God KNEW this all would happen/had to happen (something along these lines). I personally believe that Adam and Eve HAD to eat from the tree of Knowledge. I believe they were placed here to learn, as we all are. I think they were like children and had no idea what was going on. They obviously did not contain enough knowledge to realize that if they ate from the tree of life BEFORE they ate from the tree of knowledge they would have faired much better. Even God could not have stopped them from having eternal life no matter what they did after eating from the tree of life. (I argue this point with JW's all the time, no matter what they say, Adam and Eve NEVER ate from that tree of life, because if they had, God would not have made such a large issue of getting them out of the garden: "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever") Are they saved? Yes of course they're saved. They raised their children to worship God, they themselves worshipped God and lived full righteous lives. Of course I do not and will not believe that anyone is destroyed. I don't believe we have that sort of God. I do not, however, believe that everyone is saved without some sort of works. I'm not saying that we have to follow some half witted organization like the Watchtower society, but I believe we have to live according to God's word and will. How are we rewarded or punished for living (or not) up to his word? Well, perhaps the Mormon theory is close.....perhaps there are different degrees of Glory. I think every religion has some truth to it. I mean if you study hard enough you're bound to stumble on something true. It's impossible in my mind that God didn't know this was to happen. It's impossible that God will destroy his children or burn them in a tormenting Hell. But on the same token I think we are held accountable for our sins, and NOT those of Adam. How can we possibly still carry the sins of Adam? Christ died for those sins. Those sins were wiped clean, otherwise what was the purpose of the Atonement? I think that anyone who believes we could possibly be held accountable for the sins of Adam is completely insane, and I think it's blasphemy. I think that Christ dieing for us accounts for something, and if you take that away what are you left with. So, our sins now are our own, and we're held accountable for our own. So, if you think about it, we then are born with the same capability of being perfect as Adam and Eve and Christ were. Why not? Think about it - Being perfect does NOT mean we CANNOT sin, it means we choose not to sin. Otherwise Adam could never have sinned and any temptation of Christ would have been futile. So what separates us from perfection? Our choices, and that's it. Will most of us sin, if not all.....perhaps. I think that doing wrong is not the same as sinning. Did Christ ever do anything wrong? I believe so.....He didn't always listen to his parents as a child, we know this. So, in effect he did wrong, but never sinned. I think we get caught up in categorizing the two together when in all actuality they can be worlds apart. The fact of the matter is, Adam's sin means nothing to us at this point. We account for ourselves. Adam died for his sins and so did Christ. The question is, who will die for our sins? Will it be us? Will we die and be resurrected to some kind of Spirit heaven where we will be made pure again either by choice or receiving whatever the full gospel is? Will we have a chance to atone for our own sins here on earth? Is Christ going to return on his own, or will his Church be restored prior to his second coming? There's a world of questions bouncing around in my head, but whether Adam and Eve were forgiven or not is definitely not one of them. They were born just the same as we are, with the ability to sin, and with the ability to be forgiven. And if they are not forgiven than they are the most righteous people who have ever walked this earth, because that means they lived a life of worship to God, taught their children well, and for what? Eternal Death? I think not.

RevMalk's 2 Humble Cents

6

Armageddon is history!

by rabotnik in

jw
friends

thought i would pass along this news item from the morning paper since fred was on the subject of armageddon.

feared apocalypse gone with the wind.

brooklyn -- (ap) "armageddon wasnt what it was cracked up to be," says the watchtower bible and tract society, "and, man, are we pissed.

RevMalk

Hahaha, that is freaking hilarious!

34

LETTERS OF OUTRAGE TO GOVERNING BODY

by orangefatcat in

jw
friends

why don't we show our support and our outrage at the same time to the governing body for their actions towards bill bowan, barb, and all the silentlambs and see how many we can flood into the wtbs headquarters.

what do you think??

edited by - orangefatcat on 26 july 2002 9:48:39edited by - orangefatcat on 26 july 2002 9:49:37.

RevMalk

I have a few ideas.

The Judicial Desk is the dept that would handle any complaints regarding a Judicial Decision anywhere within the Church. Also, what about sending letters to Depts that the rank and file handle? Shipping/Receiving, etc. We might find some listening ears, even at the Farm in Wallkill. They have a pretty good way of distributing this information, like Franz and all them guys. See how that stuff got passed around? Maybe this will too, and we can cause some disruption within their own walls. Our letters will be thrown away from the top, but who knows what'll happen towards the bottom when someone who already has questions in their mind gets an ear full. It's not the Governing Body whom we have to change the minds of, that's an impossible task.......it's the innocent, delirious and mislead sheep. The GB will only listen (if they can still hear) when they are forced to by their own people. Will this ever happen? Of course not, they'll never fall. We're not in this to take them down, that's just a dream. We're in this because if it takes our entire lifetime, and we save one child, or one family from the hurt and pain (and in some cases death), then we've done a good thing and it's all worth it. We all have to remember that we can't save them all, but we can and should die trying. I'm not one for being a follower (anymore), and I generally would not and do not actively participate in this sort of thing. But Bill is on an honorable path, and regardless of his motives (as they've been questioned as of late), I personally feel the need to do what I can. I believe this is the most organized effort ever in the history of this movement, and I personally vow to do my part in keeping it that way. I will be in Brooklyn next month, I will write letters to God and everyone, and I will do the absolute best I can possibly do. I do think, however, as organized as this seems to be we're going to lose it unless it becomes more organized. This movement is growing fast, and we have to all keep our eyes on the prize (where have I heard that before?) and work hard on not losing the momentum, and doing whatever we can to keep it together. I know this is been said a million times, but everyone should do what they can to be in Brooklyn next month. Try and get that zeal we had as Witlesses and know that God wants us there, and if you don't believe in God, then know that the Lambs need us there! Will it make a huge impact? Not alone, no, they all have curtains and shades and back doors, but with the media attention and added in with all our other efforts we can make a difference. Saving one child from pain is worth every one of us making a sacrifice. I live rather close to Bethel, and I will do what I can to help anyone get there. if anyone needs a ride, or needs to send a Lamb, or needs anything at all, please let me know and I will do what I can to help.

Just a Thought

7

TIS THE SEASON......for depression

by DazedAndConfused in

jw
friends

when i came in here a couple of months ago i didn't see a lot of conflict (a little, not a lot) but i am noticing, as i have in other boards through the years, that the closer we all get to christmas the more people are bickering.

take a moment to think about what may or may not be happening here.. remember that it has been stated that this time of the year is stressful and the most depressing time of year for many.

most suicides occur at this time of year.. most individuals are people that have grown up celebrating holidays, this is a normal thing in their live's......no guilt trips, no trying to hide from family or friends,....etc.

RevMalk

Some get depression around the Holidays because they succumb to the pressures of society. We need to Forget all that and remember what Christmas is all about (and I don't mean the Solstice). Remember our Savior, remember what he did for us, love him as he loves you. Celebrate his Birth even if it's the wrong date, pray to him, and talk to him like he's your best friend. Why? Because he IS your best friend. If money becomes an issue and a cause for stress, don't worry, because it doesn't cost a dime to have a relationship with the messiah, that's the Beauty of it all!

RevMalk's 2 cents!

12

Protest and Demonstrations

by Larry in

jw
friends

ever since leaving the borg i've had the pleasure of behind involved in several protest marches and demonstrations.

being in nyc presents many causes to speak out against.

many folks outside of nyc may love/like rudy g, the formal mayor/dictator of the city, but he was the subject of many protest rallies while he served for two terms.

RevMalk

Larry, I want to clarify something. Stating that "No-one" in the black community can do anything without Sharpton was an unfair statement. I am speaking in generalities, obviously not individuals. Of course there are those in most causes that can stand alone and proud, and there are leaders that deserve a following. And it's my opinion that the self righteous Rev. Sharpton, the self appointed savior of the Black Culture is not deserving of any following. That also does not mean that he doesn't stand (or claim to at least) for what is right and just, and it doesn't mean that he's never said or done anything for the right reasons, but generally I think he doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone but himself and getting his big fat head in the media whenever possible (so maybe he will be in Brooklyn on the 27th, haha). So, I just wanted to clarify that, and I know that you didn't make the post to glorify this particular person (or even mention him for that matter), but I rarely find a topic on this board that interests me (except to harass MikeMusto at times :), so when I do I tend to go on and on for days. As for Reverend Jackson, he's a bit better, but he's also a bit two faced......you can't exactly claim to stand for equality and then make racial statements against the Jews......just can't have it both ways, either you believe we're all equal or you don't. (and I don't mean equal to the point where minorities receive special treatment in this over-correcting direction we seem to be heading in). And if you claim to stand for equality for all men, then practice what you preach, and try your best not to refer to New York as "Hymie Town", hahahaha. God Bless Jesse. 2 More cents

12

Protest and Demonstrations

by Larry in

jw
friends

ever since leaving the borg i've had the pleasure of behind involved in several protest marches and demonstrations.

being in nyc presents many causes to speak out against.

many folks outside of nyc may love/like rudy g, the formal mayor/dictator of the city, but he was the subject of many protest rallies while he served for two terms.

RevMalk

Larry, No offense but I think the Mayor refused to meet with the African American leaders because Rev. Sharpton is a class A Idiot, and no-one in the black community seems to be able to do anything without him. He's a jack-ass that makes the African American cause (all of them) a mockery. If he had a fraction of the heart and soul of the late and the great Rev. King, he might be worth listening to. And as for Mayor Bloomberg (Oh God Almighty this guy) - He only met with the Black Leaders because he's a suck up. Do you think he really gives a damn about anything above 110th? Now, frankly if I were to judge anyone on this issue, my hat would have to come off to Mayor Giuliani. Right or wrong, he stood up for what he believed was the correct course of action from the day he took his oath. He's not an idiot, he knew that any decision to NOT meet with Sharpton could potentially harm him, but he stood his ground and you have to give a guy credit for that. If he handled it any other way then he'd have been a two-faced punk like Bloomburg. He wasn't and isn't a perfect man, none of us are, but take a look at how he handled the KKK rally. Those KKK reps (As rediculously stupid as they are) did NOTHING wrong. They stood there looking like complete morons and a fight broke out. Who got blamed, the blacks who threw the first punch? No.....no no no.....the idiots wearing bed linens got blamed for the entire rediculous mess. Were they morally right in their convictions? Not if you ask me, they make me sick, but guess what, last I knew the Borough of Manhattan is in the United States, and if they want to stand there and look stupid in their linens, then so be it. So, the next thing you know Rudy gets on TV condemning them, and blaming the entire thing on them when they did nothing! He screwed up, he was wrong, but that's ok because he's not perfect, but he was by far the best Mayor the City of NY has ever seen. (koch was ok too). Now keep in mind that my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with Sept. 11th, because that of course would have made any Mayor famous.

RevMalk's 2 political cents - See you at 25 Columbia Heights (If Sharpton Shows up I might change my opinion on the guy :)

12

Protest and Demonstrations

by Larry in

jw
friends

ever since leaving the borg i've had the pleasure of behind involved in several protest marches and demonstrations.

being in nyc presents many causes to speak out against.

many folks outside of nyc may love/like rudy g, the formal mayor/dictator of the city, but he was the subject of many protest rallies while he served for two terms.

RevMalk

Holy Crap MikeMusto! There is a God in Heaven........Finally you said something I agree with! hahahaha......ok I'm in Brooklyn next month, we can all argue about the Mayor and the President, it'll be a blast and a half!

18

Sending/taking lambs to the March

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

in bill's initial post about getting ready for the march he mentioned that if anyone could not go but wanted to send a lamb for the march to find someone who was going and was willing to take them to leave in front of bethel .

i have three small lambs.

one for my sister (who has left the jws but suffers greatly due to the abuse) .

RevMalk

Hello Everyone,

I will be attending the march in Brooklyn, and have plenty of room in my truck for as many lambs as needs a ride. I will be there nice and early that Moring, as we're meeting on the pier to make posters and such. If any little lamb needs a ride, they can contact me at: Lambs@lunch-times.com