Posts by RevMalk

25

you are all cult worshipers

by Joanna5019 in

you should be ashamed

to call yourselves christian!!

people who molest children

RevMalk

HEHE,
Here, print some flyers and pass them out, that'll get 'em!
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

30

i have only just registered at this forum and i would like to know if there are any ex jw's that live in or close to canberra, australia.. i have been shunned by all family and friends because i left the organisation (not disfellowshipped at this stage but won't be long) and i finding it hard to cope with.

i am sorry to be down but i miss all my family and friends and would love to make new friends that know what i am going through.

my boyfriend is very understanding but gets frustrated as he doesn't know why my family are doing this to me.. this sounds like a whingy post but i promise you, i am not normally like this.

RevMalk

Welcome kelpie! Most of us have been there, are there, and some will always be there. And we're here for you. I know it's tough, and it is hard for your boyfriend to understand. It's such an incomprehensible thing that people who didn't "live" this way have a hard time calculating the entire mess.
Just know that you'll get through it, and it will become easier. Not easy, but easier.
Your family is being deceived and brainwashed by a very powerful organization. It's not necessarily their fault, and deep down they love you. Always remember that.
As for the chatroom, you should be able to click "Live Chat" and use your user name and password to get right in.

A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

Edited by - Revmalk on 16 October 2002 2:3:19

18

Warning To Trauma Hound

by Englishman in

jw
friends

.

you have posted personal ip addresses on another site.

in doing so you have revealed ip addresses of at least one person who posts at this site.. remove the post now or face the consequences.. englishman.

RevMalk

I have no idea what's going on, but it seems like a private email would have been sufficient. Are we trying to publicly embarrass Trauma_Hound? Is he Disfellowshipped now? I'm outa here, this place is worse than the Borg.
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

50

Update from Ray Franz

by Amazing in

jw
friends

last night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.

one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.

in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.

RevMalk

Amazing, Thank you, you did good. Also, is this better? I have my resolution to the max, so everything looks small to me.
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

Edited by - Revmalk on 11 October 2002 16:31:46

50

Update from Ray Franz

by Amazing in

jw
friends

last night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.

one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.

in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.

RevMalk

gumby:
Rev.....please QUIT writing in upper case letters. It's disracting. No offense
Ummmmmm, Gumby......I'm not typing in Caps, you ok? Does anyone else see caps? I don't see caps. Perhaps it's a font problem?
Room 215:
I persist in feeliing that any conjecturing or speculation that casts aspersions at Ray -- or at Bill for that matter-- demeans the the unquestioned value of their contributions and doesn't deserve the dignity of a temperate response.
I agree 100%, time to move on (past?) Now, about my upper case problem, if it's showing caps, it's not intentional. I've never had anyone say this to me before, so I'm assuming that at least not everyone sees this. If anyone can let me know one way or the other I'll look into what the problem might be here. Thanks! RevMalk
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

Edited by - Revmalk on 11 October 2002 16:34:44

121

Ray Franz Key Witness?!

by qwerty in

jw
friends

this may have been a topic before on the board.

it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.

would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?

RevMalk

Valis:
Well, I went away for a day and a half and still no answer to my questions...*sigh*..yeah Bill is out of touch, but I'm sure he had plenty of time to answer within the time frame that I posted. Perhaps he didn't find the very pointed questions worthy of an answer, or perhaps it is I who is not worthy of response from someone "on high" like Bill......it would seem to me that if anyone else slandered Ray Franz we, would as a group demand not only an apology, but some sort of reckoning or answer to "the pot calling the kettle black" questions...and might be calling them a troll to say the least. It would appear that some can say whatever they want with impunity, which IMO is a double standard. Before you start in on me, yes I have read the other threads and its great that Ray and Bill have spoken and that went well. However, the piss poor attitude Bill decided to take w/many of us is something I am not quite ready to let go of...but wait...I'm just an armchair warrior after all, so it shouldn't matter huh?
Valis, I'm not making any excuses for anyone, but Bill is out of the country, he left early morning the day after this thread got out of hand. Just wanted to let you know, since you've been waiting for an answer. He should be back in a week. Ok, I will make an opinion. I think Bill lost it. I think the armchair warrior thing was a bit out of hand as well. But I think this all stemmed from the crap he encountered due to the "Letter". He took alot of crap over that, and I wanted to let everyone know also that the letter has been checked out by an Attorney, and as far as legalities are concerned, it's clean. I hope that sets some minds at ease. RevMalk
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

Edited by - Revmalk on 11 October 2002 13:22:19

50

Update from Ray Franz

by Amazing in

jw
friends

last night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.

one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.

in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.

RevMalk

I didn't mean to imply that the guy was lying. My intentions were that we don't know the guy. Some do of course, and they have different reasons to believe what they believe. I merely am pointing out that we don't know. Who knows what drives people to say and do things, we're all human. I also have stated in other threads that all this doesn't really matter. It was a disagreement of sorts, and hopefully it's over. I think it's not wise to believe on over the other for any of us. I also think perhaps Bill shouldn't have said what he said, but people screw up, it happens. Although on the other hand perhaps he did have reason to say those things, I don't know, don't really care. I know the purpose of the whole thing is the cause, and that's that. I have suggested in other threads Bill appoint a Board of Directors, apparently that idea isn't that popular, but it would help him out a great deal, and it may restore some faith that some people once had in the silentlambs organization. It certainly wouldn't stop anyone from voicing their own opinion, but it will help in other areas. For instance, the Letter Bill Wrote the Governing Body (or whoever it was to), that everyone had a problem with. I showed it to an Attorney friend of mine, and was told that there was absolutely not one legal problem with the letter. It didn't appear to have any great impact power, of course, but absolutely no problem with it otherwise. Yet everyone went crazy over it, for no good reason. Calling names, insulting intelligence, the whole nine yards. You all know, you saw it. And yet as far as the legalities, everyone was dead wrong. So, can people misjudge, misunderstand, and make mistakes. Yep - So maybe we should just all get on with it and cut the crap.
Frankly, the stress Bill endured for no reason over that stupid letter may have sent him over the edge. Maybe he just screwed up. Maybe he didn't screw up, I don't know anymore. I just know that all this bickering is insane.
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

Edited by - Revmalk on 11 October 2002 13:7:20

50

Update from Ray Franz

by Amazing in

jw
friends

last night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.

one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.

in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.

RevMalk

I was preparing to post on the following quote, when I noticed Perry had addressed it already. This is my concern exactly:
I found the above statement, to stretch my imagination a bit. The part that I have particular trouble with is, "nor did it ever come up nor get discussed". ... Your quote of him makes it appear that Ray never had a conversation about pedophilia in all his 40 years of service. Do you think this would be confirmed by Ray if he was asked to elaborate?
Ray noted that in his entire 40 years of fulltime service (from age 19 to age 59 when he resigned in 1980 from the Governing Body) he never once dealt with a case of molestation, pedophilia or incest and that such a case was never presented to him at anytime, nor did it ever come up or get discussed.
This is impossible for me to believe. You can't tell me that the amount of service this guy has put into the Watchtower, that's he's never so much as had a conversation about it. Now what am I suppose to believe? Ray has done some great things, but this is flat out not the truth, or he's losing his memory. Come on, this is impossible. I know you said the issue never came up until the 80s in your situation Amazing, but you also never served on the GB, and probably never traveled to the extent of Ray Franz. If I didn't know better (or maybe I don't), it would seem as though he's hiding something. I know I'll get hammered for that statement, but realize it's an observation of the situation not the man, since I don't even know him. I don't want to speculate on things, since that's not fair to Ray, but it could be as simple as guilt and embarrassment for not trying to do something about it when he was in the position. I've been thinking about this more and more. Ray mentions every other problem in Bethel and with the GB while he served, except for the child molestation issue, and their policy. Could it be possible that Ray feels bad for not trying his best to make changes, so in that case he denies that he knew anything? Or maybe he agreed with the policy at one time and doesn't want the embarrassment of people realizing this? I mean, if that's the case I don't blame him, but you can't tell me that in 40 years he never so much as discussed the issue.
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

Edited by - Revmalk on 11 October 2002 16:37:13

22

Mormons ELECT their ELDERS

by refiners fire in

"relief society study guide.

" 1989 version.

article: "by common consent".

RevMalk

refiners fire:
And the holy spirit speaks to all hundred or so individuals in the hall and confirms to each of them that the proposed appointment is of God. I have serious doubts about this being so. Why, if that were true, The Mormon church would indeed be Gods organization on earth."
I know I'm going to get hammered for what I'm about to say, but that's ok. Just realize (everyone), before I say it, that it is only my opinion and nothing more, please. Thanks!
Ok, as a child I remember having trouble accepting the JW doctrine. Not such things as Paradise, the 144,000 (and one?), Not even so much as the false Prophecies (of course these claims I was told were untrue). Anyway, the problem I had was "Who died and made Pastor Russell boss??". WHO appointed Russell to his position? I didn't care, even at 10 years old, that he had what I believed to be the accurate knowledge, it didn't matter to me, because in my eyes, mind and heart he was not appointed to the role he TOOK. I could buy that God would appoint a modern day Prophet, but I couldn't buy that a modern day Prophet is allowed to appoint himself. Pastor Russell said himself that the truth is the truth no matter if it comes from Satan himself, and I think those are the most truthful, honest, intelligent words that ever came out of his mouthpiece, perhaps the only truth. Satan knows more about God and salvation and Glory and Grace than we'll probably ever know. So is Satan the "Truth"? 10 years old, I have to worry about these things. Anyway, my problem was that there was no divine nature to this so called appointment by Christ. Christ didn't come to earth, Christ didn't talk to the Pastor, nothing, Nada......he got a 'feeling'. So what! I get feelings all the time. For a while I had the feeling I was going to heaven (still do), so I assumed that that meant I was of the anointed class, but that couldn't be, I wasn't even going to the hall at the time. The point was, I knew I was going to heaven, God knew and Christ knew, but it didn't mean I was among the 144,000, obviously. I have just always felt that an appointment by Christ would be more divine, and Christ's people would feel that as much as the chosen Prophet himself. I felt that if God were to appoint a man on this planet to be his mouthpiece he would inform that man with more than a 'feeling'. Ok, I know, I'm babbling, you get my point.
So the statement above is exactly how I thought it should be....the Holy Spirit speaking to 100 or so individuals. If Christ restored his Church on earth, of course he'd speak to that amount at once, even more! The entire Mormon Doctrine and History is exactly as I thought it should be, even at a young age. The visit to Joseph by Christ himself, the fact that Joseph made so many Prophecies that came true. The fact that he knew things that we didn't know until just a few years ago (mostly health issues). So, I started studying with the Elders (and yes, they'd be like JW pioneers, except they leave home to serve a mission), and I prayed and prayed and prayed like they told me to. See, they don't rely on their own knowledge so much as guidance from the Holy Spirit. They even told me this - "We can't make you believe, that's not what we're here for. We're here to bring you the message, and from there it's between you and God". So, like I said I prayed and Prayed.....finally got an answer! Never felt something so strongly, never felt so good in my life! It was an emotional experience, one I'll never forget. My business was also in a bit of a financial 'situation' at the time. I was never so blessed, business had quadrupled, even more. Life was good, it felt good to be alive, it felt good to know that Christ was with me, and loved me and was my best friend. I will probably never feel so good again. We had scheduled a Baptism, as a matter of fact my wife and I were going to be Baptized in the same place as Joseph Smith, and where my Great-Grandmother was born and raised (I always wanted to go there, so it was extra special to me at the time). Anyway to make a short story long, my in-laws were concerned. Not that it would be a bad thing to become Mormon, they just didn't want us to rush into things. So, I promised I would look on the net one last time before we were Baptized. I had nothing to fear, I had looked and looked and looked. By the way, the ex-Mormons have nothing much to go on. It's not like here, they may be a large organized religion with some internal problems, but they've pretty much stayed the course throughout history. Anyway, so I found something that rubbed me wrong, and we cancelled our Baptism and haven't been back since.
I'm miserable, it nags at me still, and probably always will. The brunt of my business has completely failed me and I'm left once again confused. What can I say? I guess it struck me that refiners had to say this:
Well, IF (and that's a big IF) God's true Organization were on Earth at this very moment, IMHO, it would HAVE to be the Ladder Day Saints. I come to this conclusion through personal experience, feeling the gift of the Holy Spirit, and what I deem common sense based on my experiences as a child. You know it's funny, children have a way of looking at things, so simple and clear, without all this 'information' clouding their minds. I saw it clear back then. I felt that the Watchtower was the False Prophet, the Anti-Christ if you will, and I also knew that I would find the truth one day, and I knew in my heart that the Truth would be similar to the JWs. I guess I assumed this because if the Anti-Christ were to try and take God's people, he would use every Avenue, even that of mimicking God's True Prophet (I believe the Bible even vaguely implies this, but I'm not sure). So I spent my life with my eyes open, waiting....So, whether the Truth is the Mormons, or whether the true Prophet has not come yet, I don't know for sure. At this point I'm not sure of anything anymore. But I do know one thing. Alot of people here on the Board mock all these religions without knowing a thing about them. Unless you're all convinced there is no God, don't ever just assume someone is wrong and crazy because you never know where God might be. I also wanted to mention that I was very intrigued by the fact that Mormons feel that most if not all of humanity is saved to some Glory, and that there is some good in all religions. Of course they believe their way is the truth, and they should, or they wouldn't have any business being Mormon. But they don't look down on any of us, it's nice, and to any Mormons out there, know that it's appreciated. So before you go bashing (not that anyone was) another religion, at least read up on them and see what they're all about, because a blind eye is as bad if not worse than blind faith.
Ok, let the hammering begin.....

A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him. John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author

Edited by - Revmalk on 11 October 2002 9:6:51

148

Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.

he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.

it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.

RevMalk

Amazing
Well, you are probably correct in all of that. It's just that I'm so tired of it all. I'm with Mulan, I'm going to split for a while. My kids don't even bicker this much, it's all giving me a headache.
Good Luck to All - Till I return (which will probably be tomorrow when I get real bored, haha)
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author