Born in .. baptised in 1988 .. left for good November of 2010 ..
How many years wasted? too many. TOO MANY. Although I do have some good memories ( people based .. )
darthweef
JoinedPosts by darthweef
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79
How ManyYears Did You Waste Being A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus ini was raised as a jw and i haven't been to a meeting in about 8 years..
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A Question For the Guys...
by Quendi inthis thread was inspired by the "a question for the ladies..." thread and anybody is welcome to post.. if you are now free and clear of the wts, how have your dress and grooming changed?
i'll start the ball rolling by saying that i made some changes that i really like.
i'm down to two suits and they are only for job interviews and perhaps some solemn occasion.
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darthweef
I grew a beard .. I had already shaved my head while I was still a ministerial servant .. they weren't thrilled by that, but there really wasn't anything they could do about it.
I own a single suit, for funerals and the like, other then that I don't own any long pants. Strictly shorts and t-shirt guy now. It helps that I work from home.
I also got a tattoo on the back of my leg. ( A barrel, with barley and hops on top ) Also having a full sleeve designed right now.
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What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Have Going For Them?
by minimus inthere must be a reason jws stay or people join..
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darthweef
They get hope ... some people just can't grasp a life without some sort of reward/punishment system tied on to the back end. For the JW's they get a "real hope" that they can count on, so they don't have to fear anything .. not even death.
Many would stay even if they knew without a doubt that it was not true, simply because they can not bear living without belief.
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Anyone use Twitter?
by Megachusen inafter a few years i've decided to try to get back into twitter and now i'm trying to build up a list of interesting ex-witnesses to follow.
so if you're an active twitter-er please post your username .
here's mine if you're interested in adding: @robb_knotts.
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darthweef
mine is @darthweef ..
Good to "meet" you on twitter!
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Do You Make Fun Of "Jehovah" or Jehovah's Witnesses?
by minimus ini have a friend that calls witness, jovies in a very deriding way.
"i saw the jovies in the street....haha".
personally, i don't think it's very nice or even mature.... but what do i know?.
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darthweef
I have a friend who, when I left the organization and declared myself an atheist, bought me a hoodie that says "Jesus is a C**T!" ... I politely refused the gesture, as I find that sort of thing extremely rude, and not the word, but the brazen disrespect of other peoples beliefs.
Personally I think religion is harmful, destructive and ultimately an anchor to a dark time of ignorance and superstition... but those are my beliefs and I hope that people in my life will respect them, just as I respect their belief in God.
It's never cool to make fun of people ... never.
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Stephen
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My email to my mother - sorry a bit long
by darthweef inhello - i am new here .. just joined a couple of days ago, and have enjoyed the bit of lurking that i have done.
a breif history, i was raised as a jw, was active until i was 36, and was a regular pioneer for 7 years and a ministerial servant for 5 years, and was one when i left.
my reasons for leaving are not important at this point, but i have spent the last year or so researching the flood and more extensively the theory of evolution.. i have finally decided to broach the topic with my mother since after all this time, the last of my jw friends and my brother and sister have all decided that they should shun me now, and i want to make a last ditch effort to convey to my mother that i didn't leave the organization so i could do lines of coke off a cheap hooker, but because i actually believe that this is not the truth.. i'd love some feedback on the email and what you think the possibility of it actually breaking through the "permafrost" created by the society.
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darthweef
I think the most telling part of this whole exchange is that we have, in the past, had many rational and some heated, discussions about the bible and whether certain aspects were valid. The flood, the exodus, etc. etc.
Never has she had any problem with me expressing any disbelief in the bible or questioning its authenticity. However, make ONE comment about the fact that the society is not being honest in their explanations, and all of a sudden I am an apostate and disowned.
So apparently it's question the bible all you want, talk about "mother" and I'll cut you! LOL
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My email to my mother - sorry a bit long
by darthweef inhello - i am new here .. just joined a couple of days ago, and have enjoyed the bit of lurking that i have done.
a breif history, i was raised as a jw, was active until i was 36, and was a regular pioneer for 7 years and a ministerial servant for 5 years, and was one when i left.
my reasons for leaving are not important at this point, but i have spent the last year or so researching the flood and more extensively the theory of evolution.. i have finally decided to broach the topic with my mother since after all this time, the last of my jw friends and my brother and sister have all decided that they should shun me now, and i want to make a last ditch effort to convey to my mother that i didn't leave the organization so i could do lines of coke off a cheap hooker, but because i actually believe that this is not the truth.. i'd love some feedback on the email and what you think the possibility of it actually breaking through the "permafrost" created by the society.
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darthweef
I won't burden this forum with a running back and forth between my mother and I, especially since I won't be responding to anymore emails, and I doubt that she will either.
However, these were the answers that I sent to her questions.
And what have you gained by all this time spent on "research"? The Truth. Not as it was spouted several thousand years by men who wrote a religious book, but as it has been laid out for mankind to discover for the last 4.5 billion years. That Truth has opened my eyes to the possibility of what, not only myself, but the rest of humanity is capable of if we only shuck off the confines of superstition and harmful beliefs that are founded in ignorance.
Does your current thinking give you anything more than the knowledge that you have no Creator? See the above question, but I would like to address the underlying tone of this question. I did not go out in search of answers that would justify my “desires” or to destroy the concept of a creator in my mind. To be honest, I do not consider myself to be an atheist, since the answer of whether God exists or not is not something that has been answered. I do not, however, believe in the god of the bible, nor do I feel that the writings of that book will ever do anything overtly beneficial for mankind. In fact, I think we can all agree that the allegiance to that philosophy has ruined more then a few lives.
Does it help you dismiss the future?
On the contrary, it makes me embrace the future. I am so excited to see what is going to come over the next 20, 30, 40 years. What advancements in science will I get to see in my lifetime, will other forms of life be discovered, etc etc. The future is no longer limited by a mystical day of wrath that will wipe all the life away .. Again. I spent most of childhood being taught that life that didn’t matter, cause Armageddon was coming anyway. Doing well in school – unimportant ( cause I wouldn’t see graduation anyway). Learning how to properly manage finances – unimportant ( cause I’ll never be old enough in this system for it matter). College – unimportant (Why would want to put anything ahead of kingdom interests?) ... In fact, It’s taken me 2 years to get over the idea that I can be fat and lazy cause it doesn’t matter, Jehovah will just correct all that in the New System.
I am much happier with the future I see before me now.
Have you focused so much on the science that you forget the Biblical prophesies and other aspects of the Bible that make it Divine? I’d be happy to discuss this with you, at anytime. While the majority of my focus has been on the idea of answering the question of evolution or creation, and the flood account, I am happy to look at the evidence of biblical prophecy, although I feel that now that the foundation of the “accuracy” of the bible has been removed there is really no point.
What's your goal? My goal is to understand the world around me, and find my place in the universe. The bible, and specifically Jehovah’s Witnesses beliefs, demand much sacrifice. It seems to me that it should only be fair that we be allowed to question the authority of that demand. If it rings true then so be it. But it is so clearly obvious that it does not, that it becomes laughable.
Do you need an excuse to wake up, eat and drink, and have no one to give an accounting? Why would I need an excuse. I have a great life. I can’t wait to wake up in the morning and get going. Also, I don’t need a make believe god to establish my morality code. I am a very moral person, and I am such without the need of fear tactics being placed above my actions. -
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My email to my mother - sorry a bit long
by darthweef inhello - i am new here .. just joined a couple of days ago, and have enjoyed the bit of lurking that i have done.
a breif history, i was raised as a jw, was active until i was 36, and was a regular pioneer for 7 years and a ministerial servant for 5 years, and was one when i left.
my reasons for leaving are not important at this point, but i have spent the last year or so researching the flood and more extensively the theory of evolution.. i have finally decided to broach the topic with my mother since after all this time, the last of my jw friends and my brother and sister have all decided that they should shun me now, and i want to make a last ditch effort to convey to my mother that i didn't leave the organization so i could do lines of coke off a cheap hooker, but because i actually believe that this is not the truth.. i'd love some feedback on the email and what you think the possibility of it actually breaking through the "permafrost" created by the society.
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darthweef
Thanks for all the advice .. I had already sent the email, and I don't regret that. My parents and I have an odd relationship and therefore retaining it is not necessarily that important to me if they only want under the condition that I pretend to respect this organization.
Those of you who said she would cry Apostacy were right on the money. They have also cut off any further relationship with me in order to protect their ignorance from the wiles of science.
Wish I could say I was upset about it, or felt anything about it really. In the end, I have developed a much larger family and freinds over the last couple of years and I think that the clean break from the "former things" is probably the best way to go about it anyway.
Thanks again for all the support, I'll definitely be hanging about the forums from time to time and I look forward to getting to know you all.
For those of you who are interested, here is a copy of her reply .. minus a few overly personal comments.
<EMAIL>
My dear son Stephen,
Today I got the letter from you that I have dreaded for a long time....although I always hoped that I would not get it. You are expressing the thoughts of an apostate. You have become critical of Jehovah's channel on earth. All your comments about the research you did, the inclusion of the society's publications, and the spouting of your "wise and intellectual" expressions on scientific theories on evolution might sound very impressive and even intimidating to an uneducated person. To me they sound like a very unhappy boy who has lost his purpose in life. To me they speak directly to motive, that is a direct and calculated way to find error and fault with Jehovah's organization. I think back to a return visit we made here in Sioux Falls with a woman over at 5th and Lewis and you made an equally zealous defense of the truth. I think of your talk on Romans 8:20 when you showed Jehovah's ability to resolve mankind's sad condition. But that same ability has never been coupled with, or at least is not currently rooted with any emotional attachment to Jehovah. And what have you gained by all this time spent on "research"? Does your current thinking give you anything more than the knowledge that you have no Creator? Does it help you dismiss the future? Have you focused so much on the science that you forget the Biblical prophesies and other aspects of the Bible that make it Divine? What's your goal? Do you need an excuse to wake up, eat and drink, and have no one to give an accounting?
Here is the conclusion for me...why do you want to write and try to undermine my absolutely awesome way of life? What makes you motivated to challenge the most High God, Jehovah? It would not matter if I am totally wrong about what I believe (although that is not the case). You know why? Because I live a fulfilling life and have great joy in teaching people about how to love, how to find happiness in life, and comfort in a world that is very cruel. What do you give to your fellow man? Hard, cold reality? The exposure to your intellectual prowess ? You are empty now. Your spiritual vacuum has been sucked dry of truth.
Your father has given me clear and specific instruction to tell you that staying here in the Fall is no longer an option. We will protect our spiritual heritage and defend our position until such a time that you again "call on the Name of Jehovah"(Acts 2:21) Communication of the type you sent today is not welcome.
I wish you were a parent so you could understand how hard this is and how awful it feels to experience the pain of seeing your current state. (2 Peter 2:21,22) I hope you are able to come to your senses.
You will always be loved by us and you will always be our son.
Love, Mom and Dad</EMAIL>
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My email to my mother - sorry a bit long
by darthweef inhello - i am new here .. just joined a couple of days ago, and have enjoyed the bit of lurking that i have done.
a breif history, i was raised as a jw, was active until i was 36, and was a regular pioneer for 7 years and a ministerial servant for 5 years, and was one when i left.
my reasons for leaving are not important at this point, but i have spent the last year or so researching the flood and more extensively the theory of evolution.. i have finally decided to broach the topic with my mother since after all this time, the last of my jw friends and my brother and sister have all decided that they should shun me now, and i want to make a last ditch effort to convey to my mother that i didn't leave the organization so i could do lines of coke off a cheap hooker, but because i actually believe that this is not the truth.. i'd love some feedback on the email and what you think the possibility of it actually breaking through the "permafrost" created by the society.
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darthweef
Hello - I am new here .. just joined a couple of days ago, and have enjoyed the bit of lurking that I have done. A breif history, I was raised as a JW, was active until I was 36, and was a Regular Pioneer for 7 years and a Ministerial Servant for 5 years, and was one when I left. My reasons for leaving are not important at this point, but I have spent the last year or so researching the Flood and more extensively the theory of evolution.
I have finally decided to broach the topic with my mother since after all this time, the last of my JW friends and my brother and sister have all decided that they should shun me now, and I want to make a last ditch effort to convey to my mother that I didn't leave the organization so I could do lines of coke off a cheap hooker, but because I actually believe that this is not the truth.
I'd love some feedback on the email and what you think the possibility of it actually breaking through the "permafrost" created by the society. I'd also like to thank several people on this forum ( during my lurking stage) that helped me formulate my thoughts on this.
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Cheers!
Stephen
Twitter / @darthweef
Facebook / StephenJohnson
<Email Starts>
Mom -
I have recently been doing a fair amount of reading and research on the topics of evolution and the origin of life. Realize please, that I am not using known “apostate” literature in this research. I am simply reading the societies materials on it, and cross referencing that with the scientific documentation that they refer to. I do this in harmony with the scripture at Proverbs 14:15. I have finished reading the latest brochures from the society on the topic – Was Life Created and The Origin of Life, and have skimmed through the Creation book. I had some topics I wanted to ask you about. Please bear in mind that my point is not to start a fight or even a debate, but honestly just want to get your feedback on some issues that I have, since my pool of people in the organization that will speak with me is obviously limited. I have in the past tried to discuss some of this with Jim, since he was calling on a fairly regular basis, but his dogmatic regurgitation of “mothers” incorrect information and refusal to address even the most basic of evidences leaves the conversation very frustrating. I have always found you to be a honest student of science, and someone who enjoys researching topics, so I feel like you will at least take the time to verify and formulate an opinion of the issues that I have with these publications, and the idea of creationism as a whole.
However, please feel free to just delete this email, and not respond if this is not a conversation that you are comfortable having, or if you just plain don’t want to have it. I would completely understand and won’t take offense.
First, my initial problem with these publications is that they very clearly do not understand what the theory of Evolution even is. They lump the concept of abiogenesis into the theory of evolution, when that is not an accurate representation of the theory. The theory of evolution in no way attempts to answer the question of the origin of life. Evolution attempts to explain the diversity of life, not how the first cells formed. Biological evolution requires that some self-replicating genetic material already exists, going from that basis, it then describes how variation and natural selection can lead to improvements in these molecules and eventually lead to the types of life that we see today on the planet. The topic that the society is addressing in The Origin of Life (specifically the first two sections) is the field of abiogenesis, which is an extremely young field with a very basic framework of established thought on how and why the first genes may have formed. It is not, however, on the same level as the current understandings that we have on the variation of life through evolution. Ultimately, at this point, the issue of how the original cells came into existence is not really important, as evolution very clearly & very accurately defines the pattern of speciation throughout the history of this planet leading up to the current state we find it in, and that pattern is in direct conflict with the ideas set out in the biblical version of creation.
Another issue that came to mind is the constant feeling that I get from the publications that they want me to believe that evolution is some controversial theory among the scientific community. A very basic look at the general consensus of the scientific community patently refutes this viewpoint. Evolution is considered a scientific fact. These publications try to make it seem that the word theory seems to mean that they are just guessing. Theory is defined this way : a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena. Example: Einstein's theory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine. The only groups that believe this theory to be “controversial” are creationists and proponents of Intelligent Design. I would propose that it is not even possible to find a single respected scientist in any of the accepted fields surrounding evolution that would attempt to refute the theory as being anything other then sound and correct.
Which, actually brings me to another issue, and this issue is the one that I find most disturbing. In my readings of the Creation book, a few Watchtower articles on evolution and these two publications, I was shocked to find that the quotes that are used are very often misrepresented, taken out of context, or are flat out just not true. This leads me to think that there is underlying agenda being pushed at the cost of actual truth and honesty. Given that a large part of my life was spent in the studies of these truths, and my recent rejection of them being valid has left me being shunned by many people, I find this to be highly offensive. I submit a couple of examples. Francis Hitching is often quoted by the society as an evolutionist, and is presented as though he has made some scientific contribution to the field. In reality, Francis Hitching is a British author, journalist and filmmaker; he is also a parapsychologist and a dowser. If you don’t know what a dowser is, I didn’t, it’s someone who uses divination to find water. He is also the author of several books that posit that we get powerful positive energy from crystals and mayan temples. I would dare say that if a witness was discovered reading his parapsychology books, that they would likely be strongly counseled by the brothers, yet the society sees fit to label him an expert and quote from his book, and what about that book. In my brief perusal of this book, in the acknowledgments he claims to be a member of the Royal Archaeological Institute, which has publically stated that he is NOT a member. He also claims to have received assistance in writing this book from an actually respected evolutionary scientist Richard Dawkins who states "I know nothing at all about Francis Hitching. If you are uncovering the fact that he is a charlatan, good for you. His book, The Neck of the Giraffe, is one of the silliest and most ignorant I have read for years." So, not only is he a “Practitioner of Divination”, he’s a liar! Despite this, the society feels justified in using him as a source of spiritual food at the proper time.
In another, what I would consider egregious, misrepresentation the WLC brochure quotes heavily from the writings of Wolf-Ekkehard Lonnig. Lonnig is a Jehovah’s Witness, but nowhere does it say that in the brochure. Why hide that fact? If they felt that his education and status in the scientific community was valid enough to be quoted in the publication, why should it matter? As it turns out, his standing in the scientific community is fact highly questionable. The book he is known for writing did not undergo peer review, was not published through a respected scientific publishing house, but instead was self published through a pay-to-publish Indian service. His employer, Max Planck Gesellschaft, was apparently very embarrassed when he published, on their website, several creationist essays which were subsequently pulled and apologized for. This is likely the reason why the society had to include a disclaimer noting that Lonnig’s opinions are not shared nor should they be associated with the MPG.
I could go on and on and on .. And believe me, looking up the various scientists and philosophers that have been quoted, while exhausting and time consuming was pretty easy. Many of them have even publically spoken out against the Society, and the Discovery Institute ( a ID institution in Seattle that are proponents of teaching Intelligent Design in the classroom ) for misquoting and misrepresenting their works. It would seem to me that they feel that the society is going out of their way to present ideas, using those scientists, that are not being presented by those scientists. I feel like this can not be understated as this is no longer just an issue of an organization actually believing that the account in Genesis is a scientific fact, that can be backed up by our current understanding of the natural world, as these publications are trying to state, but is instead an organization that is furthering an agenda that it knows to be in conflict with understood science and reason. That makes the whole situation far more malicious in my opinion.
Lastly, and I will leave it at this since this already far longer then I expected it to be .. Leaving off all the creationist debates against evolution and looking simply at the accepted timeline that Genesis lays out, which is 6000 years ago mankind was created, how can we take that and reconcile it with the established facts that “civilized” man has been around for 10s or 100s of thousands of years .. Also extremely easy to verify through science. For example, Sumerian culture is dated back 6000+ years. There are temples that have been discovered at Gobekly Tepe that are around 11,000 year old. Cave paintings in the south of France that are roughly 25,000 years old. In Spain there are cave drawings that go back 30,000+ years. Australian Aboriginal cultures date back more the 60,000 years. The Berekhat Ram figurine dates back over 200,000 years and is thought to have been made by Homo Erectus, not even Homo Sapiens.
Sources for the above information:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/science/spotted-horses-in-cave-art-werent-just-a-figment-dna-shows.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21458-first-neanderthal-cave-paintings-discovered-in-spain.html
http://www.aboriginalculture.com.au/introduction.shtml
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]/0/75258e92a5903e75ca2569de0025c188?OpenDocument
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/classicalarch/readings/Berekhat_Ram.pdf
This also, obviously, calls into question the validity of a global flood, but we can save that for a later discussion.
I am genuinely interested in hearing how you can reconcile these facts in your own belief of creation, and am not trying to start an argument with you or anything like that. My decision to leave the organization was not an easy one, and in the process I have researched these issues for one simple reason. If Jehovah exists, and if he is the omnipotent creator of this earth and the universe, then OF COURSE I want to worship him and benefit from the seemingly beneficial ruler ship he would provide. However, if he is all those things, then human reason, logic and the ability to understand the natural world ( all things he would have had to have given us ) should be able to provide some evidence that the Genesis account is accurate, and honestly I am just not seeing it.
Feel free to call me anytime, and I look forward to seeing you soon!</Email Ends>
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How many here smoke?
by cantleave ini don't and am very unlikely to after seeing my father dying of a smoking related lung disease (even though i would like to try a high quality cigar).. but i am curious to see how many people take up smoking after leaving the org.. .
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darthweef
I started smoking after my wife and I split up, but I am trying to quit now.. I smoked as a kid when I was 9 years old until I was about 13. My father was not a witness, so he smoked. I love a good cigar with a craft beer, but I need to kill the cigarettes, they are just so bad for you. LOL