Posts by Sanchy

60

These are Bernie supporters waiting for their free stuff

by Morning Warship in

jw
friends

garbage removed.

Sanchy

It's about obtaining services that we should be getting FOR THE MONEY WE ALREADY PUT IN!

This is the problem I have with Bernie and more socialism in general. We will NEVER get all the services we "should" be getting for the money we put in when it comes to gov providing such services. Gov has proven time and time again that it is really REALLY inefficient at spending its citizen's money. There's just too much Bureaucracy. This is why our social programs are bloated and will collapse sooner or later, as well as why most other countries practicing a stronger form of socialism are not doing so well.

So it's really hard to convince me that I should pay more into such system, in hopes that finally gov will provide the services it "should" provide.

Alternatively, show me an economic system that has created more wealth, brought up more ppl out of poverty, and stimulated more innovation than has capitalism.

18

Partaking of emblems

by sloppyjoe2 in

jw
friends

this year will be my first for by going to the memorial.

i will get asked by my parents how i can deny jesus even if i don't believe the end is close.

my thoughts on this are as follows, bear in mind saying it's all make believe is not an option.. i think that jesus intended for everyone to eat the bread and drink the wine.

Sanchy

What purpose would it serve? If you love your family (remember it's not them that is the problem, its the system they are indoctrinated to), then ask yourself: What actions could I take to create the least amount of pain?

If your conscience tells you that you need to partake of bread and wine, then perhaps a separate ceremony on your own or with another org would allow you to do so with less "issues".

Remember friends, love is the answer. I know we are bitter and angry at the system, but never lose the love, even if we get none in return.

8

Help with reinstatement letter!!!

by stephanie61092 in

good morning everyone,.

first, i know some of you may feel very obligated to tell me "why would you want to get back in?!

i hate that i have to do this but i have to play their game.

Sanchy

The main thing elders are looking for (having passed enough time *usually 6 months at least) is that you are sincerely repented of your sin. Showing some humility in your words goes a long way.

"I realize now the depth of my sins. I realize how it was against Jah alone that I acted. Brothers, I weep deeply, everyday, as I now realize how much I've hurt my father in Heaven. I've prayed daily for forgiveness. I have also taken steps to eliminate the sinful acts from my life, and intend never to return to them. I've learned my lesson."

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

Sanchy

As opposed to who? If you can supply tangible evidence of someone else who can do it better, then go ahead and i'll vote for that person. Otherwise government is all we have to keep things running even if it's not perfect.

Depends what it is gov is doing. I'm not saying that we need NO government. I'm just saying that perhaps conservatives have a point in keeping gov as small as possible, keep it doing what it is best at doing and what are essential gov roles: Mainly the military, civil protection, treaties etc. Since government is really really REALLY inefficient at doing pretty much anything else, usually what happens when they step in is that they do more harm than good.

only because she carries a blob of fertilized cells that will eventually result in a baby, is an extreme view

Ok, "blob of fertilized cells"? Have you looked at pics/vids of aborted babies? They are usually not "blobs of cells". They are pretty well formed, even at very early ages. Some of the tactics used by the right to try to stop women from having abortions may be foolish and perhaps "extreme", but to stand in up in general for human life even within the womb I would argue is NOT an extreme view.

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

Sanchy

Jimmy Carter was the best POTUS in my lifetime.

Come on, really?

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

Sanchy

Honestly, it is quite a scary thought to think of Trump handling the US's nuclear codes. God help us. Having said that, the other side is offering an old angry socialist, and an annoying feminist (yet the GOP is always the "extremist" one).

Although Trump's rhetoric is quite harsh, him being the clown that he is, I disagree with the idea that the policy of bringing illegal immigration under control is an extremist view, its not..as most countries in the world have an immigration policy to maintain some level of control. Also, protecting unborn babies is not really an extremist view either.

Having said that.. perhaps JWs have it right in that govs are just not very successful at delivering anything right. Perhaps it is with reason that conservatives argue to keep gov as small and out of the way as possible.

Wow, I can't believe I'm talking about politics, I feel like I just sinned. lol

35

Do todays Jw's care at all about Russell and the pyramid?

by olongapo joe in

just wondering, as i will be visiting active jw family in ohio in a few weeks, do you think it will be worthwhile dropping it into a conversation, about the wtbts pyramid near his grave, or try some other topic to try and wake them up.

i was never baptized and don't really care if they get upset or not, but it is only a day trip from ohio to pittsburgh, and thought it would be fun if they denied it, and then drove their to see it for ourselves.

Sanchy

You'll only reinforce their faith. "Satan tested us with some crazy stories, brought to us by this worldly apostate, and we resisted and passed.. thank you Jehovah for helping us".

Let it go. You can accomplish more with your example than you can by debating or dropping "truth bombs". Just show them that you are still happy even being in the world.

106

Walking a thin line - Resigning Elder

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

warning of a long boring post ahead.

i feel like i need to vent my story out, as i feel quite helpless at the moment.. i'm 31 year old, married, father of toddler with another one on the way, due later this month.

i've been serving as elder for about 4 years now in a south florida congregation.

Sanchy

Again, all comments made by you guys are really uplifting to my spirit.

I will be patient... although, last night I had another "study session" with wife regarding some nonsensical things in the Apocalypse book... she listened really well. She kept defending the org claiming that it's "not perfect, but closer than any other religion" so there's that, ... but, at least she's listening.

106

Walking a thin line - Resigning Elder

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

warning of a long boring post ahead.

i feel like i need to vent my story out, as i feel quite helpless at the moment.. i'm 31 year old, married, father of toddler with another one on the way, due later this month.

i've been serving as elder for about 4 years now in a south florida congregation.

Sanchy

Honesty, I'm quite overwhelmed and so thankful for all the responses you friends have given me. Your experiences and words have moved me and I feel a bit more hopeful now. Its good to know I'm not alone. thank you so much Timdrake, Freddo, OneeyedJoe, Steve 2 and everyone else for your words of encouragement and guidance!!! It seems its definitely a time for me to work on my patience, above all. Jist of what i got from you guys is to treat her with love and show her that I am still a good husband, even without the organization. Also, instead of showing her my "doubts", I'll ask her questions that lead her to reason herself (similar tactic as we use door to door witnessing) I will re-read each post carefully many times to grasp as much as I can from your experiences.

Some answers to questions I saw on here:

-Poopie: My doubts began mostly when witnessing to a coworker a few years ago, she was a baptist, and asked me to prove to her with the christian scriptures that there would be an earthly resurrection. I couldn't. That always bugged me, but I brushed it aside as maybe I needed more personal study. The rest of my doubts are same as many have shared on this site.

-The Listener: I am indeed still an active member of the congregation. I have not had any experience of friends talking negatively about the new videos or new doctrines. We still have same zombie like attitude where everything that comes from the top is doubtless food from Jehovah. Friends actually love the new broadcasting vids. This latest one with the loafs of bread that we are making fun of on here, is instead a hit among the brothers, i've heard some on fb call it the best broadcasting yet. "This generation" change is seen as a "wonderful new understanding that makes sense now".

-TTdTT: So, FYI, when elder decides to resign, instruction is to have 2 other elders meet with him to discuss and try to encourage/help however possible. So they met with me 2 nights ago. It went well. My intention is to slowly fade, so I did "watch what i said", as i know talking too much about my doubts would lead to further trouble. Having said that, I'm the type of person that couldn't hurt a fly anyways; so it was hard for me to be completely honest of my intentions even if i wanted to be, because i feared causing these brothers more sleepless nights and more pain while they think of me becoming inactive or worst... so I minimized my issue some, referring to instead to needing "a time for myself, so that i can continue studying and fixing my issues", therefore making it seem like if my intentions are to remain a JW. I later regretted making it seem this way, but its just the way I am. Now, today, the coordinator called me, to tell me that BoE had met yesterday and they decided to allow me to keep certain privileges, such as attendant, sound, helping with the billboard schedules etc.. This blew my mind because I do remember telling these brothers (the strongest phrase i used that night) that "I was not sure if this was the truth or not". But, instead of seeing it as a possible sign of a friend that will drop out, they saw it as someone who has good qualities and is honest enough to open his heart to Jah. etc. So, now, I'm in a bit of a rut, because I'm on my way out, yet these brothers want to continue using me. I'm sure they will quickly stop using me once I start missing meetings, but I hate giving these friends some illusion that there is still hope for me, when i know there isn't.

-Patkim: I cry for you too my friend. I understand just the same what an indescribably terrible situation this is. Realizing that everything we thought of life, past/present and future, is not the way we believed it, it shakes a person to their core. I cried so many nights, asking God why must it be this way? It seems though I am past these initial soul crushing days, and am at a stage now where, even with all the problems with family and wife, I am unshackling myself from something that was holding me back as a person and as a child of God, which you are too my friend, so there is a certain sense of freedom in the horizon, even if its just a personal freedom. Please remember that the first conv with your wife will be extremely hard. Expect her to be crushed, and plan how you will react. Always with love and patience. Listen much, and show her much love. Tell her you understand that she would be shocked and have all these emotions, that you felt them too. Reassure her of your love and commitment though. That's what I did and it made the situation a little bit more tolerable.

-Stan livedeath: What i meant to say, is they must send out my details to CO and branch, then they get the confirmation back, then they announce to congregation. Bottom line is, I'm done as elder, no way around it. They asked me to reconsider, and I told them no in a loving way.

106

Walking a thin line - Resigning Elder

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

warning of a long boring post ahead.

i feel like i need to vent my story out, as i feel quite helpless at the moment.. i'm 31 year old, married, father of toddler with another one on the way, due later this month.

i've been serving as elder for about 4 years now in a south florida congregation.

Sanchy

Hi all,

Warning of a long boring post ahead. I feel like i need to vent my story out, as I feel quite helpless at the moment.

I'm 31 year old, married, father of toddler with another one on the way, due later this month. I've been serving as elder for about 4 years now in a south Florida congregation. I've always had certain questions about some bible verses and how they applied to our doctrines, but as most faithful JWs, I always put them aside with the typical "I'll receive my answer one day". It was only recently, due to certain events in my life, that I started meditating on these doubts again, making me realize that they were much more important than I gave them credit for.

Realizing our organization's doctrines were not as easy to explain with the bible as I once believed, I went on a personal study binge, reading and sucking up all the info I can, looking for answers to my "doubts". I even started looking for archived watchtower mags and books, which ended up only causing me more doubts, as I saw then how many failed predictions our org has made throughout the years, and how our core doctrines have changed dramatically as well.

Then, that moment most of us have gone through here: Realizing there is a very big possibility that this is not the truth. That moment hit me like a ton of bricks. I've been born and raised in the "truth". Its all i've ever known. All my family is in it. My wife and her family as well. I'm serving as elder with good standing in the cong; brothers always looking up to me as a "good example". Needless to say, those were some terrible days of sleepless nights, shedding many tears.

Since then, I've allowed myself to visit "apostate" sites such as this one and jwfacts. These of course opened my eyes further on the matter. So, some time went by and I realized I must do something about it. I started by talking to my pregnant wife about the matter. She of course was shocked. However, she took it well, mostly trying to blame my issues on the stresses of our new life as parents. Since then, I've continued seeking opportunities to "study" with her and subtly mention new things I've found which I continue to question. As many of you know, it is not an easy task to open someone else's eyes. It seems doctrines and failed predictions do not seem to matter to her as much as it does me. She casts them aside as imperfections from imperfect humans, but overall we have the "general truth". So I dont know how I will handle this, I'm guessing with much patience, love, and directly from the bible (no apostate literature whatsoever as that will turn her off right away).

Next step, I turned in my letter of resignation as elder. This was terribly difficult. Elders almost cried in front of me when I told them of my situation. Of course, I lightened my matter some ("I'm having some doubts as to certain things and I need time to work on myself, my conscience hurts teaching something from the platform which I'm not too sure of). In reality, I'm sure this is not the truth now. But, and this is the reason for the title of my post. I feel like I need to fade as gently as possible.

All my family is in the org. I've got no friends, no family, no one outside of it. My wife is also the same. If I DA or get DF, besides losing all those I love, I know my wife will cut off "spiritual conversations" with me and so also will be gone my chances at trying to open her eyes. With my second child on the way, my wife has told me that if I am to leave the truth, she will teach it to them, regardless of my spiritual position. She also told me that I've made her life so much more difficult now, as she married me, knowing that I was a spiritual man; she never thought she would have to deal with this. Needless to say, this breaks my heart. I love her very much, and do not want to cause her, or anyone else pain.

So, this is my situation. Elders are still in process of sending my details to CO and branch, awaiting their approval for my resignation. My wife does not share my doubts. I've got two children. My family is somewhat aware of the matter, as I've told them I'm stepping down from being an elder because of doubts and circumstances. They are also heart broken, but still "talking to me" at least. My road ahead is a difficult one, as has been for all of you in similar situation. I dont know what to believe, but I know this is something that I can't believe in anymore.

Just a side note: I don't hate my fellow brothers. Even those on top of the ranks. As a matter of fact, I love them very much. Having served as elder for a while, I must say it is quite a difficult task. These men sacrifice a lot of time and energy to complete the tasks put in front of them, and i have nothing but respect for those that do it wholeheartedly. I know many of them are imperfect and have handled things perhaps not in the best way. However, overall, these men are genuinely trying to follow what they've been taught to do, as best as they can. So, you will never see me criticizing an individual. It's the organization in general, that has been setup as it currently exists, that is the culprit and the reason why good individuals can be completely blinded.

If you've made it this far reading, and are in similar situation to me, especially regarding having had a believing mate that did not want to open their eyes, I would love to hear from you, and any advice you would think worth sharing. Thx again.