if you are pissed-off with christianity and/or religion in general, then you may like this overview of the downfall of the hillsong (pentecostalism) franchise.. it was made by a staff member of sbs an australian tv, who is apparently an ex-hillsong attendee.. the description blurb notes: " marc fennell investigates the successful, but scandal plagued megachurch hillsong, stepping back into the world of pentecostalism that he left behind and asking what happens as the hillsong kingdom crumbles.".
you can find this report on sbs ondemand.. link: https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/tv-program/the-kingdom/2204846147867.
there are other links on the web to other critical examinations of hillsong's failings, including the failure of pastor brian houston's failure to report his father's (the founder of hillsong) pedophilia.. another australian link is to channel 7's spotlight;.
I used to be PISSED-OFF with Christianity/religion. Now I just dgaf anymore. I came to realize that the cultyness, the irrationality, the bullying, and a lot of the supposed bad traits that I criticized the religious for, can also occur among the unreligious..
I'm at peace with it all.
according to jw interpretation of bible chronology, the earliest human, adam, came into existence some 6,048 years ago compared to scientific dating of human fossils believed to be much older.
since jesus validated the creation of adam and eve as historical people and jc’s own lineage is traced all the way back to adam, bible chronology is certified as true and there must be something wrong with scientific dating.
what proves scientific dating as accurate that humans are much older than what bible chronology says?.
No, it is not.
But I don't think that's the answer you want to hear.
i just wonder about this topic as it is now 109 years since that date and what was expected to take place has never happened ..
Fisher: 1914 is written in stone
If the GB released an "new understanding" article tomorrow dismissing the 1914 math, 99.9% of JWs would accept it and move on, calling it a speeding up of "Jehovah's chariot".
A few decades later, articles would be written of how "at the time some in the organization believed that in 1914 blah blah....."
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Scholar: Are you thick?
I don't swing that way.
Anyways, I have some exciting results from our little experiment: Found a buddy who actually read Dan 4, asked him if he gathered any indication that the prophecy within that chapter entailed two fulfillments. His answer was, as expected, "No"
Sorry to say your assertion regarding Dan 4 was wrong, Scholar.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
I invite the participants to focus on the following texts:
Da.4: 3, 17, 25, 26, 32, 34, 37
I looked over those texts. None of them directly mention anything about a second fulfillment.
Now the question to be asked for all of these texts that are well distributed throughout chapter 4
is, What is the common factor for all of these verses?
Nah, the question that should be asked is whether one can gather a second fulfillment from "simply reading the chapter", as you originally claimed, without manipulating the reader into arbitrarily focusing on singular verses cherry picked from your mental library of allegorical interpretations.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Scholar: "I am sorry too that from your careful reading of Daniel 4 you did not discern its dual fulfilment."
Indeed, you should be. You were wrong. You said "one only needs to read the chapter to discern its dual fulfillment". Turns out that was fake news on your end.
We should do an experiment where we ask others, preferably non-jw, to read Dan 4 and tell us if they discern two fulfillments. I bet that would not bode well for you either Scholar.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Scholar: Read it again but this time read it carefully.
I have read it carefully. Your claim regarding a second fulfillment still holds no water. Sorry.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
"One only has to read Daniel 4 and can easily see that the theme or purpose of the tree vision by Neb was to prove to him the reality of not only the present Kingdom of God as a reality in the form of the Judean Monarchy but its future fulfilment
Sorry, not good enough. I've read Daniel 4 many times and see no evidence to believe your theory of a 2nd "future fulfillment".
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
which owing to lack of precise historic details must be viewed as a round number
Sorry. Nothing of what you said here proves that it "must" be viewed that way.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
So I gave up trying to work it out anything about tablets and astronomical dates because the whole idea was a nonstarter.
Same. To me, the chronology aspect is interesting, but what really made the JW’s 1914 formula fall apart, in a more convincing way IMO, was simply realizing that it takes some extreme mental leaps to claim a second fulfillment for Dan 4, which is the entire premise of the concept.
