Sanchy

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Posts by Sanchy

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  24

  Ever-changing teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses - probably the most comprehensive compendium about Watchtower doctrinal changes

  by WTS Archive in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  two days ago a new book was released for download, called "ever-changing teachings of jehovah's witnesses".

  it was originally written by a polish jw scholar (who never was a jw himself) włodzimierz bednarski, with a help from szymon matusiak, who was a jw and an elder, and is a result of years of labourious work to compile quotes regarding every single doctrine the book describes.

  it covers the most important changes in years 1879—2015.

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  Sanchy

  Simply amazing work. Thank you guys!!!
  
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  9

  WTBTS / GBoJW elevating status of their literature

  by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the following is a brief examination of one disturbing paragraph in the august 2016 study watchtower - "do you see the need to make spiritual progress?"11.

  what spiritual qualities can we work to develop, and why are they important?

  11 develop spiritual qualities.

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  Sanchy

  Nice analysis Nich. Indeed JWs consider WT publications "spiritual food from above". If it comes from the mother org, it's divine.
  
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  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  ..having said that, we are not getting anywhere. Let's agree to disagree in what stance governments should have against JWs, and I'll end it with something I'm sure we will have in common: Lets hope as many JWs as possible, worldwide, find ttatt and leave quickly.
  
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  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  And therein lies the problem. The organization known as the Watchtower Society, which oversees the organization known as the JWs, is not a collection of individuals acting collectively.

  
  

  Crow, you missed the main point of my argument. The point I was trying to make is that individuals will suffer pain. Real flesh and blood people. Not just numbers in some organization. These ppl could be your brother, your sister, your cousin, individuals that very well might end up in jail for not wanting to violate their conscience, as has happened to so many JWs throughout their history, and continues to happen (see reports south korea)
  
  
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  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  DJS, you are so deluded, arrogant and ignorant that I don't even know where to begin debating the non-sense that you just wrote. I'll try to put it in real simple terms for you to see if I can slip some common sense into that head of yours:

  A) Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Yemen are great examples of the role of government and the respect of human rights (.. right! good going there)

  B) "The organization is a different matter. Why are you having so much trouble separating these?" Are you kidding me? You have demonstrated zero ability to think beyond the capacity of a child. An organization consist of members, as individuals acting collectively. When a JW goes to jail in Russia or another oppressive regime, they are suffering as individuals.
  

  C) JW in no shape, manner or form resemble in nature, intent or extremes white separatist groups intent in causing violence. You cannot compare JWs to such violent groups as Jihadist Terrorists or White extremists.

  Other than that the rest of the drivel you spewed is not even worth touching.
  
• 
  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  Yes.

  And my son would have received blood when he needed it.

  Really? Ok, I won't doubt your words, as I don't know you or your circumstances. However, there are countless cases of JWs who have fought within the court systems to have their bloodless decision respected, which shows that many of them are genuinely determined to not let anything stand in their way of "respecting God before Men". If you were a "spiritually strong" JW once, you will know what I'm talking about.

  Not after I had been indoctrinated from birth.

  But without the Watchtower indoctrination and false information, I most likely would have accepted blood like any other person (including almost all Christians)

  How many JW would refuse blood without being told to do so by Watchtower Inc.? Without being pressured by elders and Hospital Contact Gestapo Committees? Without fear of being shunned by all friends and family?

  My guess: almost none.

  Just like nowadays almost no JW would refuse an organ transplant on religious reasons, but some decades ago almost all of them would have...because Watchtower told them so.

  I agree that this decision is one all JWs take based on an interpretation given to them by the WT. And I understand some might be influenced into making such a decision because they do not want to suffer the consequences put upon them by JW doctrine if they falter. However, to say that ALL JWs refuse blood because of fear of discipline is simply not true. You can't paint all with a such a broad brush.

  I personally know a few stories of witnesses who have been determined to not accept blood, even if it meant death and I know that these witnesses were not making such decisions because they were afraid of discipline; rather, they made the choice because they felt it was the right one. They accepted the doctrine the WT preached, and made it their own, and thus it became part of their "individual conscience". They had a genuine strong belief that taking in blood would be a serious sin before God's eyes and that death from refusing it would be acceptable, since they would surely return in the resurrection

  To claim that all JWs are superficial and not strongly determined to follow these doctrines is simply not true.

  Through Watchtower Inc., the GB tells JW what to do, to their disadvantage. If a government wants to stop an organization/legal entity to issue instructions, it's fully within their rights.

  
  

  But here's what no one has been able to argue against:

  -Since when have government bans been effective in stopping JWs from promoting their message? Specially when there is an already existing thriving JW community within the country. They only have a contrary effect. Look at authoritarian government history and see how clandestine JW communities have only been reinforced in their belief.
  

  -Taking into account the first point, now one must remember that these are real people that will suffer real pain. These are not just statistical numbers when it comes to JWs that will finally have to abide by the "rights of a government to stop an organization". Think if your JW sister/brother/son/daughter were in Russia. They will possibly face real pain. Persecution, possible jail time, public humiliation and ridicule, beatings, constant searches and scrutiny from the authorities, having to live in an "underground" situation etc.
  

  Now, If you want to try to justify this real pain/persecution with the idea that "well, it's for the good of humanity to stop JWs", then we must remember as per point number 1, it JUST ISN'T TRUE that gov bans stop JWs. They thrive under persecution, it feeds their message and fans their fire. History has shown this. (Look at today's daily text as an example (6/11/2016) )
  

  
  

  No matter what, two wrongs do not make a right. There is no way around it.
  
  
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  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  Orphancrow, think back to when you were a JW (if u were ever one in the past). Would a gov ban have made u accept a blood transfusion had u needed one?
  
• 
  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  But we have to remember that WT does not ALLOW its members to access said information and education, that its members may then make up their own minds.....they forbid them to access any information that may challenge WT agenda......that is when I believe the authorities have the right to protect the public
  

  I hear you Diog. Its a tough pill to swallow. But ultimately I think there is a slippery slope when authorities start dictating appropriate faith doctrine (excluding acts of violence). I just dont think gov bans on the JW faith benefit anyone. It only tends to increase membership within the now clandestine community, it creates real pain for the members, and it removes universal human rights.
  
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  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  More specious BS. You have to be a follower of the Queen of Specious, Ayn Rand. You are telling me that the 'court of human rights' would view physical or sexual child abuse any differently than they would the coerced baptism of a 10 year old who faced a life of shunning if he/she screwed up (pun intended) 7 years later????? Or a minor child allowed to die because of being forced to deny a blood transfusion?????
  

  Talk about specious. Yes, such courts world wide have stood up time and time again for the right of individuals, yes, even JWs, to practice their faith freely. Do some research.
  
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  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Sanchy

  Thankfully, most courts of human rights agree with this "hysterical, reactionary, irrational mindset".