Posts by TheWonderofYou

Ideas of the apocalyptic doomsday and judgement and a phantastic future developped in the Jewish world (such as Isaiah's geena ) but they were not determining the thoughts continuing. From there originate the Doomsday phantasies, which emphazize a future individual judgement with the thought of fair vengeance.

The jewish community concentrated itself more on the important religious heritage, the festivals of Rosh ha Schana, which was interpreted as day of judgement and the Jom Kippur, seen as the day of Consiliation, which gave the people the possibilty for active repentence and consiliation between each other already in the actual life and not in an apocalytic future.

Rosh ha Schana, the day of jugdement, was celebrated on the first day of the year because of its importance to remembered everybody about the responsibilty towards God, especially to the demand and gift of conciliation. A “verdict” over the deeds of the last year was written and on Jom Kippur after the 10 days of expiation it was “sealed”.

Is this correct?

I think by means of these festivals the Jews knew well that Mercy and Love were indeed Gods character and The judgement day allegories are neverlesse
part of gods word but can only be interpreted on the basis of Gods mercy. Judgement and repentance was a daily work for a jew. Jesus and the Apostels were Jews of the 1 st c A.D. and they knew not only the Old Testament Text, but also each jewish interpretation of the scriputres and the jewish festivals. Over the centuries with the abruption of contact between Jews and Christians the Jewish Background and the mindset get forgotten by most people. The adjustment to come to a balanced few of the Scriptures was missed. Unbalanced interpretation appeared.

Talmud: Mercy should the way and aim of rightousness in the jew belief “Take the beam from between your eyes” (baba batra 15 b)

http://www.come-and-hear.com/bababathra/bababathra_15.html#PARTb

R. Huna contrasted [two parts of the same verse]. It is written, The Lord is righteous in all his

ways, and then it is written, and gracious in all his works.2 [How is this]?3 — At first righteous and

at the end gracious.4 R. Eleazar [similarly] contrasted two texts. It is written, Also unto thee, O Lord,

belongeth mercy, and then it is written, For thou renderest to every man according to his work.5

[How is this]? — At first, ‘Thou renderest to every man according to his work’, but at the end, ‘unto

thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy

http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Rosh_HaShanah.pdf

154

How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

by jam in

jw
friends

it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

TheWonderofYou

1635 AD. Friedrich von Spee, Güldenes Tugend Tagebuch, page 118
develops the thought that God could cancel the original sin by means of his love.

Friedrich is seen as central figure who argumented against the witch hunting and he expressed a
anti-perspective towards the official hell doctrine.

http://www.friedrich-spee.de/index.php?id=2

154

How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

by jam in

jw
friends

it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

TheWonderofYou

"Whether these notions should be understood solely allegorical or to what extent the symbols refer to the matter itself as well, is really hard to decide. Certainly it can be only explained by considering the total belief system” (translation by me, citation: Ratzinger, in Introduction to Christianity concering the ideas of a Christ on a judgment seat at the Parousia).

154

How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

by jam in

jw
friends

it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

TheWonderofYou

Is “torment”, “agony” - really extra biblical, extra-Jewish and pagan influence?

Can I paint over all bible passages where horrible words appear with my permanent with pure conscience? My children could feel unnecessary fear of those words.

My most hated are:

“ torment for all eternity” in the firelike (Rev. 20,10) though the words are merely part of an inspired allegory
“ inextinguisable fire” with which John the Baptist warned Herodes Antipas though it is not literal
“ agony in clacing fire” in the story Jesus told, tough the agony is not literal but Jesus only intended to warn.
“ everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” in the story about a king who selects the evil goats for slaughter.

By what other christian non pagan words I should actually replace these allegoric phrases which appear in the most popular and most read gospels and were told by Jesus himself?

Why did Jesus or the Apostel not explain that or propose a balanced view of the matter? They permanently used those unchristian words after all, Jesus spoke even of that that little lovely goats would receive the same “everlasting fire” that was prepared for the devil? Didn't they think that the Devil deserved literal conscious pain?

What did the jewish people really believe in the time of Jesus Christ? If Jesus used the agony in the hades in story, how much did the people really believe in an after life and a fair punishment. Why should Jesus tell such a story, why should he support a pagan fantasy or extra-biblical idea?

What did the people in the jewish-christian epoch acutally belief in?

63

Why did God/Jehovah/Jesus create Viruses and bacteria that can kill humans and animals?

by Jon Preston in

jw
friends

i know this topic has been spoken about but i havent seen an official thead about it.

so theists why did god create these and why does he co tinue to allow them?

are they from the talking snake, satan?.

TheWonderofYou

A possible answer: God gives the life the opportunity to develop itself into whatever direction it wants to develop,
Into the evil and bestial as well as into the spiritual and loving. "Selfdeveloped creation" and "Freedom-optimized" creatures
would be the tradmark than.

154

How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

by jam in

jw
friends

it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

TheWonderofYou

and yes too dear Vanderhofen, God does not punish - not eternal and not short!

1. it would be unlogical to read conscious pains or torments in many bible passages, torment itself is used as an image.

2. no burning people , no actual pertual pains, no literal flames, no literal court, no actual punishment , how wonderful,
nothing to be afraid of at all, because God does not punish or judge with the measures of quantitative means. !

3. Gehenna and other popular images of punishment were used by the apostels as vehicle for the teaching that
there is the shocking possibiltie to get lost, to make a total failure and to lose the eternal life.

4. How you would explain the differenc between

a) possibilty to get lost
b) punishment to death and annihilation?

The first is a possibilty the second gives the impression of a punishing God!

5. Thus i primarly think: We must not remain at merely saying "the images are merely meaning death and annihilation",
althought a very honourable work, but thus we yet more remain in the thought line of a punishing God,
perhaps we even encourage such a false understanding. But trough using "possiblily to get lost" like a sheep,
We could as responsible teachers demonstrate that God has a personal feeling for each single individuum,
is interested in our eternal welfare.

6. Thus i think secondly: is is insufficient to explain the biblical images simple as mean destruction, because destruction and annihilation itself or images of loosing Gods communion but we should show that God loves us to the maximal extent he can, what Jesus demonstrated and was witness of, that he does not want our failure, that his communion solely means real life, and that the church calls in demotic words "hell", (1st century "Fire")

7. But all teachers here, please do not remain in the thinking: "Which sentence could God mean here and there, is it an eternal or an single one?" because God doesn not punish anyone (not eternal and not short), this is the meaning of mercy. His mercy is without limit said Pope Francesco lately in the mass. And John Paul II said always "Be not afraid".

Sincerly yours, TWOY

154

How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

by jam in

jw
friends

it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

TheWonderofYou

and yes too dear Vanderhofen, God does not punish - not eternal and not short!

1. it would be unlogical to read conscious pains or torments in many bible passages, torment itself is used as an image.

2. no burning people , no actual pertual pains, no literal flames, no literal court, no actual punishment , how wonderful,
nothing to be afraid of at all, because God does not punish or judge with the measures of quantitative means. !

3. Gehenna and other popular images of punishment were used by the apostels as vehicle for the teaching that
there is the shocking possibiltie to get lost, to make a total failure and to lose the eternal life.

4. How you would explain the differenc between

a) possibilty to get lost
b) punishment to death and annihilation?

The first is a possibilty the second gives the impression of a punishing God!

5. Thus i primarly think: We must not remain at merely saying "the images are merely meaning death and annihilation",
althought a very honourable work, but thus we yet more remain in the thought line of a punishing God,
perhaps we even encourage such a false understanding. But trough using "possiblily to get lost" like a sheep,
We could as responsible teachers demonstrate that God has a personal feeling for each single individuum,
is interested in our eternal welfare.

6. Thus i think secondly: is is insufficient to explain the biblical images simple as mean destruction, because destruction and annihilation itself or images of loosing Gods communion but we should show that God loves us to the maximal extent he can, what Jesus demonstrated and was witness of, that he does not want our failure, that his communion solely means real life, and that the church calls in demotic words "hell", (1st century "Fire")

7. But all teachers here, please do not remain in the thinking: "Which sentence could God mean here and there, is it an eternal or an single one?" because God doesn not punish anyone (not eternal and not short), this is the meaning of mercy. His mercy is without limit said Pope Francesco lately in the mass. And John Paul II said always "Be not afraid".

Sincerly yours, TWOY

154

How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

by jam in

jw
friends

it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

TheWonderofYou

Yes dear vanderhofen,

yes but perhaps the catolic church never official taught torment or conscious pain, whereas the priests spoke of it on the cancel. I dont know the middleage church or how it was 100 years ago.

Mat 25: although the eternal punishment is used, it could be merely a lingustic instrument to create a comparison between eternal punishment and eternal life, If Jesus really used the comparison himself and it was not a linguistic item, it is simple giving emphazise to the shocking reality, that
somehone or "a single sheep" could be lost somehow by the shepherd. Here he does not speak of gehenna, but the image of the symbolic place of punishemnt was certainly in the heads of thep people.

Mat 25 in general: i like the parable because it shows of what jesus speaks: he identifies himself with the needy people, a single act of mercy that I do to someone who needs me, could be watched by Jesus, i dont know when he will watch me or when i will meet him, perhpas after death and that single act could mean that I am not getting lost.

Greetings of TWOY

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

TheWonderofYou

and... perhaps it was merely spirit is only imagine of Gods might or power?
Even if the word "holy spirit" is a literay construct to describe gods active doing, God in action,
it belongs to God and thus we cannot spereate it and say this is not god it merely a technical power like the
electric.

Hey the spirit of God is divine, it is the most powerful power in the cosmos,
it is love and life itself, all words are only pictures,
and there is not more then one God, one divine principle.