Google preview.
The book is very interesting what regards the early text
I copied here the conclusion of Chapter "Modern critical editions".
Thats sounds interesting, and i have to say I cant yet understand the meaning of that.
TheWonderofYou
JoinedPosts by TheWonderofYou
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Readers Digest - Early Text of the New Testament
by TheWonderofYou inhttps://books.google.at/books?id=ttnrzxcvggyc&pg=pa162&lpg=pa162&dq=p38+papyrus+michigan&source=bl&ots=iwzmjy4bmu&sig=lpsfa1rd31f4d-olxunuztjhuqg&hl=de&sa=x&ved=0ahukewiek-eh3cvqahvcfhokhzkgdagq6aeistak#v=onepage&q=p38%20papyrus%20michigan&f=false.
i recommend to read the introduction (free preview) at google preview containing stuff about.
- early text and original text p3- papyri and early text- classifying early papyri readings- text quality - earl text a free text?- transmission quality- public and privat copies- textal and scribal culture- book trade in the roman empire.
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Readers Digest - Early Text of the New Testament
by TheWonderofYou inhttps://books.google.at/books?id=ttnrzxcvggyc&pg=pa162&lpg=pa162&dq=p38+papyrus+michigan&source=bl&ots=iwzmjy4bmu&sig=lpsfa1rd31f4d-olxunuztjhuqg&hl=de&sa=x&ved=0ahukewiek-eh3cvqahvcfhokhzkgdagq6aeistak#v=onepage&q=p38%20papyrus%20michigan&f=false.
i recommend to read the introduction (free preview) at google preview containing stuff about.
- early text and original text p3- papyri and early text- classifying early papyri readings- text quality - earl text a free text?- transmission quality- public and privat copies- textal and scribal culture- book trade in the roman empire.
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TheWonderofYou
All Scriptures are inspired - a JW bible explanation about the biblical canon
That is totally nonsense what they say about the catolic church and about the process of canonization. That is excactly everthing, the whole knowlegde a typical JW how we cam to the bible, what they know about canonization. This is no 0 % edcuation
And what about the myth that the canon was decided by Emporer Constantine already at the Nicene Council 325?
There are so many conspiracy theories.
The most strange thing is that.
So they belief that the holy spirit formulated the biblical canon, made a catalog of books, made a selection........men did play no role, their discussion played no role . .really?
P.S. "Then Why did the so called " Governing body in Jerusalem " not already in the 1st century decide about the biblical canon if it was inspired? why did God not already back then when there was no falling off yet canonize the bible and give herewith a stabile basis for the truth. Why did he allow "non-inspired" catalogers to make a bible.
And if the spirit had made the decicsion to make a catalog already in the 1st century then again the spirit had done it and withouth usage of men, they had been only necessary to serve as human pens to write down the will of the spirit.
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Warwick and Walkill
by Lynnie injust curious on what big differences there are between the two compounds?
i've seen that warwick is the world headquarters now so what is wallkill called?.
have cousins that just moved from walkill to warwick, apparently they have a deluxe apartment now.
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Warwick and Walkill
by Lynnie injust curious on what big differences there are between the two compounds?
i've seen that warwick is the world headquarters now so what is wallkill called?.
have cousins that just moved from walkill to warwick, apparently they have a deluxe apartment now.
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TheWonderofYou
http://wikimapia.org/1815513/Watchtower-Farms-Wallkill-New-York
As far as I know the missionary school GILEAD has been in former times at Wallkill and is now in Patterson Education Centre.
So obviouly Patterson is only for Education.Wallkill remains a farm and printery with greenhouse and cattles.
Older postcard and google hits about Watchtower farm:
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Warwick and Walkill
by Lynnie injust curious on what big differences there are between the two compounds?
i've seen that warwick is the world headquarters now so what is wallkill called?.
have cousins that just moved from walkill to warwick, apparently they have a deluxe apartment now.
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TheWonderofYou
The appartments are for the workers and have been lately renovated. There was an expansion.
Its called Watchtower Farms, they have been expanded some years ago.
Wallkill welcomes each year appro. 70.000 visitors! You have a greenhouse, cattles, cowboys ......The WATCHTOWER FARMS google this name ... is the biggest complex of JW worldwide.900 Red Mills Rd.
Wallkill NY 12589
JW.ORG
The "Watchtower Farms Wallkill, N.Y." are part of the world headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses (Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society).
Printing & Shipping
At the Watchtower Farms Wallkill Jehovah's Witnesses print over 25 million pieces of Bible literature (Bibles, Watchtower & Awake! magazines etc.) annually. They ship literature in more than 360 languages to branches worldwide as well as to more than 15,000 congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the United States, Canada, and the Caribbean.
Farm Department
Farming operations provide produce and beef for the United States Bethel family. In addition, this department cares for the landscaping that enhances the appearance of the facilities.
Food Distribution
This department cares for the processing and storing of food for the Bethel families in Brooklyn, Wallkill, and Patterson. This arrangement simplifies the task of providing quality meals.Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_WitnessesNearby cities: Middlefield, Le Ray, AntwerpCoordinates: 41°38'15"N 74°15'43"W-----Touring WATCHTOWER FARMSWallkill - Touring Watchtower Farms in the Ulster County hamlet of Wallkill is an eye-opening experience. Worker safety, cultural awareness and cleanliness are clearly high priorities to the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The grounds are immaculate, the people friendly and the facility is state-of-the-art. Watchtower purchased the farm from the Goebel family in 1963, started expanding it in the 1970s when they maxed-out the Brooklyn printery’s footprint, and officially relocated it there in 2004. The original farmhouse, which dates back to 1690, has been fully restored and serves as housing for the campus workers. Because the Wallkill Bethel is a large facility in a rural area, it even has its own small fire brigade.PRINTING NETWORKWallkill Bethel is part of a regionalized printing network and serves North America, including 12,000 congregations in the United States. In 2008 the printery produced more than three million Bibles, 18 million magazines, 27 million books, and 236 million tracts, all of which are distributed free of charge. The printery also produces magazines and bibles in Braille and offers American Sign Language videos. Since it was first published in 1879, Watchtower Magazine has never missed an issue - not even during the paper shortages of the Second World War. Quality control The health and safety of workers is built into the design of the printery. Pipes rather than people transport ink and every major department graphics, pressroom, bindery and shipping has its own safety coordinator.Each station has quality control and checks are done every 30 seconds. The bindery has 70 machines and approximately 1,150 workers.To minimize waste when shipping, barcode readers pick the right box, print labels and direct the box around the floor using a system of lights that lets pickers know what to pack. Inventory is automatically replenished. As of last year, all congregations order materials online. Most materials are shipped by rail. Environmentally friendly For all this paper one might expect to see trimmings on the floor or dust in the air. Yet Wallkill Bethel is an environmentally friendly printery complete with pollution control units on the roof and a water treatment plant. Quiet automated cleaning machines sweep the floors and thousands of feet of overhead pipes suck trim waste into a central paper recycling area, which Watchtower spokesmen say saves $500,000 each year on recycling paperIN RESIDENCEIn the 1970s, Watchtower officials constructed the first residential building on the campus consisting of studios and one-bedroom units. The residents have onsite optical and chiropractic services as well as a repair shop that services official vehicles and which residents may use to work on their personal vehicles. Laundry services are provided and to conserve water, the rinse water becoming the wash water for the next load.FARMINGBeyond the printery and residences along Red Mills Road are fields where the Witnesses grow sweet corn, blueberries, grapes for juicing and apples.Watchtower cowboys are responsible for more than 400 heads of grass-fed Black Angus cattle that are never sent to feedlots.In the world The efficiency with which the Jehovah’s Witnesses operate was also evident in the aftermath of the earthquake that struck Haiti in January. The Watchtower’s branch office building in Haiti, which survived the quake, served as a relief center and triage unit as did its three Kingdom Halls in neighboring Dominican Republic. More than 100 Witness missionaries were killed in the earthquake. But within one day after the natural disaster, Witnesses in Haiti distributed prepackaged three-day food supplies to 4,700 people; Watchtower officials said.Take the tour Visitors are welcome to tour Wallkill Bethel.More than 70,000 people tour Watchtower Farms each year. Guided tours are available Monday through Friday from 8 until 11 a.m. or 1 until 4 p.m. and Saturdays from 8 until 11 a.m. Call 845- 744-6000 for a tour. Watchtower in Warwick The Watchtower property in Warwick is the 253-acre site of the former Research and Development facility of the International Nickel Company that closed in 1983. Watchtower purchased the property from Touro College. Watchtower is widely respected among real estate dealers for its business acumen and the excellent condition in which it keeps its properties. The Warwick property has always been targeted as a “high value Highlands property for maintaining continuity of protected land and habitat,” said Edward Goodell, the executive director of the New York-New Jersey Trail Conference. Although “it’s been for sale several times,” Goodell said, “the conservation community hasn’t managed to buy it.” If the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society proposal goes through, it will have a minimal carbon footprint and “use all kinds of recycled materials with a vast amount of open space to remain,” said Warwick Town Supervisor Michael Sweeton. He also said members visiting the campus will stay in bed and breakfasts and hotels, eat in restaurants and shop, bringing tourism dollars with them. Take the tour Visitors are welcome to tour Wallkill Bethel. More than 70,000 people tour Watchtower Farms each year. Guided tours are available Monday through Friday from 8 until 11 a.m. or 1 until 4 p.m. and Saturdays from 8 until 11 a.m. Call 845- 744-6000 for a tourIts indeed a farm that feeds millions
Today, Wallkill’s printery is a highly automated, state-of-the-art facility staffed by some 280 willing men and women. Last year over 17 million books and Bibles were produced there. In addition to the Wallkill, Canada, and Mexico printeries in North America, Jehovah’s Witnesses have 12 other printeries—located in Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe, and South America—that help to satisfy the spiritual needs of millions.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/bethel/watchtower-farms-wallkill-new-york/____Some time ago there were rumor and specualtion about shortviewed pollution of nature that happened by the printery, there was chemical waste there.CattlesOther rumours said that this is a money grabbing farm.Some guys are making video while driving around in Wallkill Watchtower farms and post it on youtube and call it cult compound. -
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Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)
by TheWonderofYou inthe bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.
i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.
you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.
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TheWonderofYou
Interim conclusions - Early witnesses for Acts 15,20
1. Early versions in papyri
Early versions in papyri containing Acts are preserved in papyri from 3rd century until 4th century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Acts_of_the_Apostles_papyri
The passage Acts 15,20 is however only preserved in P45 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_45
The Payprus bodmer XVII, P74 also bearing Acts 15,20 is only from the 7th century.
So we have only one papyrus-witness from 3d century with Acts 15,20 and with „strangled“
2. Early versions of Acts in Codices.
We have only those 4 great codices from 4th-6rh century which contain Acts.
Codex Sinaiticus (X) discovered in the Monastery of St. Catherine in the Sinai; today in London, British Library) http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=51&chapter=15&lid=en&side=r&verse=20&zoomSlider=0
Codex Vaticanus (B; 4th century; today in Rome) http://www.csntm.org/Manuscript/View/GA_03
Codex Alexandrinus (A, fifth century, now in London, British Library) http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/FullDisplay.aspx?ref=Royal_MS_1_D_VIII
and Codex EphraemiRescriptus (C, 5th century, washed down in the twelfth century and described with tracts of the Syrian ecclesiastical father; today in Paris).
The first three contain chapter 15 and the pasage 15,20 in the same version with "strangled", as we have seen above.
All these versions have in Acts similarites and cholars see conformity in this text tradition, as we have seen also in the text tradition of Acts 15,20
- briefness and shortness
- austerity simple grammatic
- unfanciful and uncomplicated writings style
The same is the case with the papyrus 45, the oldest manuscript with Acts 15. The P45 is also subordinated in the classical methode under this text body type. Is a casarean text type and originates in Alexandria.
Since the discovered Bodmer Papyri P66 (from 200 or 125 A.D. containing John) and P75 (from about 225 A.D. containing Luke and John) have shown also that this „genus“ of writings already could go back to a text body type from the early second century, this would mean that also this version of Acts 15,20 with „strangled“ in it, is presumeably the original text (however P66 and P75 dont include Acts 15).
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Australian Royal Commission mentions that G. Jackson was inconsistent
by Daniel1555 init's great that the following is officially mentioned in the royal commission's report:.
when asked if the governing body members saw themselves as ‘jehovah god’s spokespeople on earth’, mr geoffrey jackson answered that it ‘would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that god is using’.
mr jackson’s response seems to be inconsistent with the documentary evidence before the royal commission, which shows that jehovah’s witnesses believe that the governing body is the ‘channel’ by which jehovah’s ‘will’ is communicated to them..
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TheWonderofYou
Does anyone else think the recent Watchtower article stating that the FDS is neither infallible nor inspired is connected with this?
Yes. I think its connected.
"The infallible in doctrine and procedure" subject will be studied in the congregations and everbody will fast jump on the driving train.
"Aahh, how wise the GB is and humble, and that we get this councel at the proper time when the whole world is against us". We are the only religion that changes. Now we can show that we still follow loyaly the GB even if it changes the procedure or gets rid of unfitting procedures concerning the 2 witness rule. Actually the old understanding of the 2 witness rule was not only a guilt of the GB but of all JWs who have false understood it".
It was obviously already arranged that the Service desk waited for the report of the commision to have a basis for its further legal counceling and for working out a fitting scriptural response and organisational response.
It was obvioulsy clear that JW would not act from themselves without any pressure or urgence throught the higher authorities in Australia, because also in other countries there is not need for such a rushing ahead obedience what regards handling of abuse cases. No mandatory reporting wished.
The Governing body could even be not much more happy that "pressure" and "urgence" comes from the higher authority. so they can MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN without loosing GB-face.Hopefully they see that loophole.
Its a healsome persecution for them, even a blessing. They can call it persecution but utilze it as unavoidable change with one stroke.
I cant await the outcome. That is getting really exciting.
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Washington Post is carrying the story: Australian Jehovah’s Witnesses protected over a thousand members accused of child abuse, report says
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/28/australian-jehovahs-witnesses-protected-over-a-thousand-members-accused-of-child-abuse-report-says/.
over the course of about six decades, more than 1,000 members of the jehovah’s witnesses were accused of sexually abusing australian children, according to a new report.
victims were ordered to keep quiet.
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TheWonderofYou
Australia: 1005 cases of any form of sexual abuse since 1950. In 56 years.
Lets divide 1005 through 700 congregations. That make 1,4 abusers in 56 years per congregation. 60000 JW compared with 1005 cases makes 1,6 % of publishers are going from house to house and are a risk. They should always have company and certainly no minors.USA 25000 unreported cases according to the press in 14000 congregations. Makes. 1,7 abuser case in 56 years (if 1950 was the year the worldwide collection of data began) That brings us to 1200000 JW in USA compared to 25000 cases makes even 2 % of publishers a risk.
Canada 116000 publishers with 1,6 % "risk of abuse" makes 1856 possible cases again for 56 years.
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What if the 25000 cases are meant worldwide? Then we would get a better picture.
If you take 118000 congregations and divide it through 25000 you get 4,7. Each 4th or 5th congregation would have had an abuse case in 56 years. That would even make a better image.
If we applied a cautious 1,5 percent risk ratio worldwide we would get with 8000000 JW exactly 80000 abuse cases worldwide in 56 years notabene.
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Violence and women - a worldwide problem
Two factors are important:
- Many unreported cases
- experts say that each 3rd woman has been abused or beaten or experienced other forms of violence in a lifetime (30% of all women)
In that case and in this bandwith the 1-2% of abuse cases in the JW-church are not so much in quantity but dreadful because they happen in a socially closed group with unacceptable rules e.g. they go hand in hand with shunning and loose of all family and social peer group contact.
Even if violence is not included in the 1-2 % it seems that the percentage of violence and abuse in the JW church is less than in the average population.
Nevertheless the JW-cases go hand in hand with other forms of psychological abuse and violence. (shunning eg.) which also counts heavily for the victims.
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Readers Digest - Early Text of the New Testament
by TheWonderofYou inhttps://books.google.at/books?id=ttnrzxcvggyc&pg=pa162&lpg=pa162&dq=p38+papyrus+michigan&source=bl&ots=iwzmjy4bmu&sig=lpsfa1rd31f4d-olxunuztjhuqg&hl=de&sa=x&ved=0ahukewiek-eh3cvqahvcfhokhzkgdagq6aeistak#v=onepage&q=p38%20papyrus%20michigan&f=false.
i recommend to read the introduction (free preview) at google preview containing stuff about.
- early text and original text p3- papyri and early text- classifying early papyri readings- text quality - earl text a free text?- transmission quality- public and privat copies- textal and scribal culture- book trade in the roman empire.
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TheWonderofYou
sThank you for the information.
Instead he argues that texts are always fluid and their dynamism should be explored rather than tamed by dubious static notions of originality and corruption.
Thats indeed a very important saying. Because from the oral tradition to the writings and even in the time of writing down the New Testament memories or letters there was no central authority that decided what kind of text is "acceptable" or not. The "writing down"-project was a "living" project.... as you call it "dynamic".
The fact that there are version of the text e.g. in Acts where we have a text with and without "strangled", texts with better grammer or less grammer, more fanciful stories and more autere stories, all this is hint that it doesnt turn around what is the earliest manuscript but about how the text developed, was accepted, then how it was used, by whom and for what and where. Alone these things are things we can be happy to have a bible, a single word, or phrase can reveal much about the history of development but doesnt urge us to become literalits and bigoted.
This is an interesting series of lectures about the Development of the New Testament, by Prof. Dr. Stefan Schreiber at University Heidelberg. - from oral tradition until biblical canon principle. He compares the development of the biblical canon with the differene between sect and church.
"Plurality is allowed and at the same time limited, thats the canon principle."
This decision is important if one thinks socialogical.
For a sect, as social term, its characteristic that it creates homogenity. Members of a sect have to follow very plain the rules of the group and there is nothing outside of the group. A very plain limited course.For a church it is again characteristic that it is plural but not arbitrary. In a church more streams will have room.
For me that seems to be very important if I look in my church.....where there are certain tendencies of narrowing. It is not liked anymore that one thinks to much in this or that direction. That is not in.
Thats understandable at one hand, because one has then a clear line, but on the other side there is the problem that the plurality that is inherent for Christendom falls by the wayside.- Then church becomes a narrow corrodor and no vastness" (translation mine)
The bible development, the acceptance of bandwith, more spectrum than one in the canonization-process, how the church handled it, itself is a witness for PLURALITY at one hand and LIMITATION at the other hand. Thoughts have to be allowed. A sect can even be created by publishing an own bible translation.
If the Governing Body would listen to such information that would change much in the watchtowers understanding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCwACZre4co&t=28s&index=5&list=PL8BvS9GnE53d7yhhxRFJr1DuOst1wMRaJ
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Jehovah God is Real
by TakeOffTheCrown inthere are many on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists; that he is not a real being.
but, he is as real as next breath you draw into your nostrils.. some of you say that there is no evidence that he exists.
yet, none of you can prove that he does not exits.. cofty, (you come to mind), i appreciate that you have stated, without reservation, that you do not believe that god exists.. yet, you cannot prove it.. hope in jehovah..
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TheWonderofYou
Another german poet who mentions "jehova"
Da war der Fucks, ein blinder Heid'
Und persönlicher Feind des Jehova,
Glaubt nur an Hegel und etwa noch
An die Venus des Canova....
Der Edle hatte ausgehaucht
Die große Seele soeben,
Und wird als verklärter Seraph jetzt
Am Throne Jehovas schweben.Wintermärchen by Heinrich Heine
From "spoken german lyrics" + search for appearances of "jehova"
http://www.deutschelyrik.de/index.php/suche.html?keywords=jehova
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If God is real "he" "she" is "present" "omnipresent", okaaay.
The poet speaks of the omnipresence of god in the most holy and says that you and me can be there in the most holy and that this is a matter of awareness. This seems to be a typcial "christianty"-idea, a pagan idea for JW of course.
I like that idea much more than the distortet worldview of Jehovahs witnesses that since 1914 we have an "invisible presence of God or jesus" after his already happened "coming" as king of the kingdom and waiting for the ultimate "coming at armageddon or whatever".
I wish you a beautiful Advent-time, a tradition that is 500% more beautiful than the distortet gospel of watchtower.Just read this by TerryWalstrom?
The bible is a book of hope, memories and sages of hebrews and jews and it doesnt proove the existence of God. It doesnt give the answer "Why", but it only asks why the evil exists. Jesus on the cross asked the father "Why"?when he cited the psalm.
My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?
Why so far from my call for help,
from my cries of anguish?a NABREChristians did not really understand why all that happend, why this wonderful man jesus was killed. Now he was a cursed.
But as they have known what Jesus preached and knew his mercy and how he loved his folks they "feeled" that he was near to god, like in gods presence, and so they began to preach that love would overcome lately the evils of the world.
The message of Jesus, concentration on the presence of god, what is namely meant with the "kingdom", and "heaven", becoming praying people was always more important than answers. If one prays, acts in mercy and love and rightousness than the "heaven" and the "kingdom" is already present, has already come to you.
Thats my adventstory for you.