Posts by TheWonderofYou

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/787

Goto page 787 and open the options. Choose transcription into greek. you get the greek text

Above show verses 15:18-20, the numbers on the left are the line number in the codex

γνωστον απ αιωνος εστιν τω κω το εργον αυτου
διο εγω κρεινω μη παρενοχλειν
τοις απο των εθνων επιστρεφουσιν επι τον θν
αλλα επιστειλαι αυτοις του απεχεσθαι
των αλισγηματων των ειδωλων
και της πορνειας και του αιματος
και οσα μη θελουσιν εαυτοις γεινεσθαι
ετεροις μη ποιειτε

των αλισγηματων των ειδωλων .... here this looks like "idols"..eidolos
και της πορνειας και του αιματος ..... here is porneias.....and ...haimatos (Blood)

What the "Wester text type" misses is "the strangled animals". But instead the copyist added

this text.

και οσα μη θελουσιν εαυτοις γεινεσθαι ......BUT WHAT IS THAT, it is not in your bible?
ετεροις μη ποιειτε

θελουσιν - wish, okay its the Golden Rule of which also Terry spoke in the thread 3 years ago

Terry on Jehovahs witnesses.com wrote:
"(b) The Western text omits ‘what is strangled’ and adds a negative form of the Golden Rule in 15.20 and 29. . . . Concerning (b), it is obvious that the threefold prohibition . . . refers to moral injunctions to refrain from idolatry, unchastity and blood-shedding (or murder), to which is added the negative Golden Rule." 1

The "western texts" were those used by a significant number of those early Christian writers, and these texts had already replaced the purely ritual rules in the original description of the Apostolic Council with moral rules. Obviously, then, these later copyists were not aware of the background of the blood prohibition, and struggled to understand the text. To make it more acceptable, they "corrected" the text to be a list of three moral laws: idolatry, unchastity and murder. And hardly anyone will deny that these rules apply to all Christians! No wonder, then, that the early Christian writers argued that the apostolic council still applied.
Concerning these texts, we read:
"Of the remaining types of texts which Westcott and Hort isolated, the so-called Western Type is both ancient and widespread. . . . Its date of origin must have been extremely early, perhaps before the middle of the second century. Marcion, Tatian, Justin, Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Tertullian and Cyprian all made use to a greater or less extent of a Western form of text."
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/275895/letting-jesus-refute-watch-tower-blood-policies

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

I got it!!!

Page 787 of Codex Theodori Bezai.

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

The unity of Luke and Acts

www.hts.org.za/index.php/HTS/article/download/1657/2949

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

Whereas the "Western standard text" of Acts is preserved in other collections

"Western text" of Acts:

Codex D 05 (Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis), named after Theodor Beza († 1605), a greek scholar and co-worker of Calvin, who rediscovered this code from the 5th or 6th century and handed him to the University of Cambridge in 1581. Online at University of Cambridge https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/685 The "Western text" is also attested

by Papyrus P38 (approx. 300 AD; contains Acts 18,27-19 : 6, 12-16; today in Ann Arbor, Michigan and

P48 (3rd century, contains Acts 23.11 - 17.23-29; today in Firenze Italy).

The term "Western text" comes from the fact that this textual delivery was first discovered by Western church fathers, e.g. Irenaeus of Lyon († 202 AD).

About the Codex Bezae

Codex Bezae (MS Nn.2.41)
There are half-a-dozen ancient manuscripts which are the foundation of our understanding of the text of the New Testament writings. Among these stands the copy known since the sixteenth century as Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis. Any manuscript which has survived from antiquity is a marvel for this reason alone, and as we explore its pages, we have a rare opportunity to explore a little of the written culture of late antique Christianity. Although in the past century some remarkable papyrus manuscripts have been recovered from the sands of Egypt, their discovery has in general served more to highlight the significance of the parchment manuscripts than to diminish it.
Among this group, Codex Bezae occupies a unique place for several reasons. In the first place, as a bilingual manuscript, with a Greek text and a Latin version on facing pages, it provides a valuable insight into the reception of the Gospels and Acts in the western Christian tradition. The Latin version it contains is one of the small handful of manuscripts which are the most important witnesses to the development of a Latin version before Jerome's famous Vulgate of 382. Secondly, it provides a strikingly different form of text to that preserved in almost every other manuscript, and to the printed Greek text and the translations derived from it. These differences consist in the Gospels in frequent harmonisation of the text and in Acts in a free restyling of the text found best represented by Codex Vaticanus and reproduced in English translations.
The manuscript is the work of a single scribe, one trained primarily to copy Latin texts. Its present contents are the Gospels of Matthew, John, Luke and Mark, a single page of the last verses of 3 John (in Latin only) and the Acts of the Apostles. The only book that is complete is the Gospel of Luke, since there are pages missing from all the others. It is possible that between Mark and 3 John the manuscript originally contained Revelation and the rest of the Epistles of John. The Gospels are in the so-called Western order, with the two who were apostles first, followed by the two who were companions of the apostles.
The manuscript is best dated to the end of the fourth or the beginning of the fifth century. Many places have been proposed for its place of origin, including southern France, Africa, Egypt and Palestine. I have proposed Berytus (Beirut). There were a number of correctors and annotators working in the first centuries of its existence. The first strong evidence for the manuscript's history is replacement leaves for missing portions of Matthew, John and Mark. The style of writing and the use of blue ink provide a very strong case that these pages were written in Lyons in the ninth century. At this period Lyons was an important centre for the dissemination of ancient works in the west.
It is probable that the Codex Bezae remained there, in the Monastery of St Irenaeus, until the sixteenth century. It was apparently taken over the Alps to the Council of Trent in 1546. Its textual significance was already recognised, since it was one of the manuscripts whose readings was cited in the first edition of the Greek New Testament to include such information, made by Robert Stephanus in Paris in 1550. Then after the sacking of Lyons in the religious wars it came into the hands of the Reformer Theodore de Bèze, Calvin’s successor at Geneva. The first part of its name is derived from the Latin form of his name, Beza. In 1581, Beza presented the manuscript to Cambridge University. This is the origin of the second part of its name, Cantabrigiensis.
A printed transcription of the manuscript (using a font imitating the shape of the characters) was published by the University Press in 1793. A more accurate transcription, with the corrections and annotations fully detailed, was made by F.H. Scrivener and published by Deighton Bell in 1864. A facsimile edition was published by the University Press in 1899.
Of the many distinctive readings of the manuscript, the following deserve special mention:
It is the oldest manuscript to contain the story of the adulterous woman (John 7.53-8.11). It is on Folios 133v to 135.
The genealogy of Jesus in Luke's Gospel is arranged in reverse order so as to conform more closely with that in Matthew. It is on Folios 195v to 197.
There is a story about Jesus found in no other manuscript (the story of the man working on the Sabbath, placed after Luke 6.4). It is on Folios 205v and 206.
It is the oldest manuscript to contain the longer ending of Mark (16.9-20). The last pages of Mark are missing, so all that remains is the Greek text of verses 9-15. What follows is text supplied in the ninth century. It is on Folio 347v.
In Acts, when the angel delivers Peter from prison the detail is added that they go into the street down seven steps (Acts 12.10). It is on Folios 463v-464, eleven lines from the bottom of the page.
Professor David Parker
Edward Cadbury Professor of Theology and Director of the Institute for Textual Scholarship and Electronic Editing
University of Birmingham
March, 2012

---

It will take time to find out on which folio exactly the passage Acts 15,20 where blood is mentioned is to find.

Anybody here to help me on which folio it is? The western text (the "D" text) should read else than the eastern text. It should read similar to

" But prescribe to them [the Gentiles] that they to contain oneself from defilement of idols and fornication and of the blood and others, not to do what one does not want it to happen to oneself."

To be continued.

https://books.google.at/books?id=bGW7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PP11&lpg=PP11&dq=greek+text+codex+d+05&source=bl&ots=yMl092W6q7&sig=7PdGPFZF-vpHcb_dMKkSe7Nmgqk&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-iama4cbQAhXM7hoKHbt0Du4Q6AEIMzAC#v=onepage&q=greek%20text%20codex%20d%2005&f=false

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

The bible manuscript below is a picture of the P45 (Gregory Aland number) from the 3rd century. I have cut out the passage of Acts 15,19-21 from the greek text. You can compare the P45 with the greek text from Nestle Aland.

P45 is a papyrus which contains the biblebook "Acts of the Apostels" namely the chapters 4 - 17 hence also it has the passage where James speaks about blood and strangled animals. The text appears in the egyptian standard text type, which is the older witness of bible text.

Besides in the P45 the eastern text of Acts is further preserved in the great codes that also contain Acts in the "Egyptian standard text type.

Overview about oldest texts that preserve the eastern standard text of Acts:

P45, This papyrus in codeform contains the "Egyptian (or eastern text or minority) standard text of Acts. (3rd century, P45 contains large parts of Acts from chapters 4 to 17, Dublin, Chester Beatty Library and Vienna, Austrian National Library, in Dublin are 18 leaves and in Vienna 2.

Codex Sinaiticus (X, 4th century, by Constantine Tischendorf, 1844 and 1859 discovered in the Monastery of St. Catherine in the Sinai; today in London, British Library)

Codex Vaticanus (B; 4th century; today in Rome)

Codex Alexandrinus (A fifth century, now in London, British Library)

and Codex EphraemiRescriptus (C, 5th century, washed down in the twelfth century and described with tracts of the Syrian ecclesiastical father; today in Paris).

In addition, the Egyptian text form is testified by Egyptian church fathers, such as Clemens of Alexandria († 212) and Origen († 253).

P45

http://www.csntm.org/manuscript/View/GA_P45

The text appears on fol. 28 "titled "Acts 15.19"

Where is the word "blood" in the papyrus?... blood is the "καὶ τοῦ αἵματος", which you find in the Papyrus in the 3rd line on the right

http://www.nestle-aland.com/de/na28-online-lesen/text/bibeltext/lesen/stelle/54/150001/159999/

19διὸ ἐγὼ κρίνω μὴ παρενοχλεῖν τοῖς ἀπὸ τῶν ἐθνῶν ἐπιστρέφουσιν ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν,

20ἀλλ’ ἐπιστεῖλαι αὐτοῖς τοῦ ἀπέχεσθαι τῶν ἀλισγημάτων τῶν εἰδώλων καὶ τῆς πορνείας καὶ τοῦ πνικτοῦ καὶ τοῦ αἵματος.

21Μωϋσῆς γὰρ ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων κατὰ πόλιν τοὺς κηρύσσοντας αὐτὸν ἔχει ἐν ταῖς συναγωγαῖς κατὰ πᾶν σάββατον ἀναγινωσκόμενος.

19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood. 21 For Moses, for generations now, has had those who proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the synagogues every sabbath.” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+15%2C20&version=NABRE

(The last line of my cut out reads .... BATON ANA....." σάββατον ἀναγινωσκόμενος" which is "sabbath" the first B is damaged.

This OP will be continued with furhter pictures of the Eastern and Western text type and overview in which old codes and Papyrus the "western standard text" is preserved, only give me time.

7

Blood is healthy

by TheWonderofYou in

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2112829-blood-from-human-teens-rejuvenates-body-and-brains-of-old-mice/.

the key to youth appears to be in the blood plasma – the liquid part of blood.

several studies have found that injecting plasma from young mice into old mice can help rejuvenate the brain and other organs, including the liver, heart, and muscle.. blood has the power to turn back time.

TheWonderofYou

The contemporay vampir who wants to be "in" will have to inject the virgin's plasma. Only the effect of plasma has been investigated. If other components of blood would have similar juventile results would be an interesting subject for the bloodless-research field. So JW could use this side effect to have juventile therapy and make some money.

In the meanwhile remains: no whole blood, only plasma

7

Blood is healthy

by TheWonderofYou in

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2112829-blood-from-human-teens-rejuvenates-body-and-brains-of-old-mice/.

the key to youth appears to be in the blood plasma – the liquid part of blood.

several studies have found that injecting plasma from young mice into old mice can help rejuvenate the brain and other organs, including the liver, heart, and muscle.. blood has the power to turn back time.

TheWonderofYou

and regarding to blood manipulation in the atonement ritual that was only a religious ritual that served as a single part in the whole complex of "sin-covering"-and "forgiving".

The achieved atonement was not meant to be "legally" payment for sins towards god as JW see it. - "you kill the animal and thats it, the payment for the sin" No, It was rather a religious ritual to come closer to god together with priest, family and friends during a festival, a holiday meal (like at shabbat) because sacrifice in hebrew means since always not a "payment" or "ransom" but it means a "gift" for god that, to come close to him, atonement doesnt turn around a juristical ransom but about loving relationship with god.

Therefore the bloody community sacrifives were ALONE not enough to shop repentance for unwillingly sins. But only together with forgivness and reversion and consious repentance it was seen as effecitve way of jewish Teshuva = repentance

Note: Bloody sacrifice were only a part of teshuva, without reversion actually not effecitve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repentance_in_Judaism

7

Blood is healthy

by TheWonderofYou in

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2112829-blood-from-human-teens-rejuvenates-body-and-brains-of-old-mice/.

the key to youth appears to be in the blood plasma – the liquid part of blood.

several studies have found that injecting plasma from young mice into old mice can help rejuvenate the brain and other organs, including the liver, heart, and muscle.. blood has the power to turn back time.

TheWonderofYou

..and as far as I remember human blood was biblically never forbidden, it was rabbinically forbidden only because it could be mixed with animal blood which was designated only to serve as atonement under the altar as far as it was killed ceremonially in the temple and the fresh blood poured out. But biblically human blood is not forbidden.

But mankind had not yet discovered the optimal solution for usage of human blood for its destination as lifesafer and lifeforce in medicine.

The wise biblical commandments of Genesis and Leviticus, which are not based on human superstition .."aaahhh blood" ....allow human blood to be used to safe life.

Christians who are not superstitious are already now allowed to use blood fractions to save lives after all.

7

Blood is healthy

by TheWonderofYou in

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2112829-blood-from-human-teens-rejuvenates-body-and-brains-of-old-mice/.

the key to youth appears to be in the blood plasma – the liquid part of blood.

several studies have found that injecting plasma from young mice into old mice can help rejuvenate the brain and other organs, including the liver, heart, and muscle.. blood has the power to turn back time.

TheWonderofYou

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2112829-blood-from-human-teens-rejuvenates-body-and-brains-of-old-mice/

The key to youth appears to be in the blood plasma – the liquid part of blood. Several studies have found that injecting plasma from young mice into old mice can help rejuvenate the brain and other organs, including the liver, heart, and muscle.

Blood has the power to turn back time. So vampirism is not at all a lie.

___

German article in "fringe science"

http://www.grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.de/mythos-junges-blut-verjuengt20161124/

___

Is then "blood" in a complete other sense as we learned the "seat of life"? Is it a lifebearer and lifegiver itself? But would blood then not be a lifegiver like God was, his concurrent and the secret source or key to eternal life? A key to eternal life that mankind should lately discover in itself, lifeforce in the body? A divine present that is in our midst and that is placed in our body and should be once discoverd? It sound utopian like a similiar story about the stemcell-therapy story or the story about nearly eternal living creatures like medusa etc. that circled around some time ago.

But in the case of blood transfusion, that would be interesting, if we would transfuse the "life" of another person into our body in this new sense, wouldnt we somehow share our "lifeforce"? Before developping further this new thought we should ask the realists how much substance these "scientific" articles have.

Perhaps we make a list with all potential animals with eternal life already discovered.

Cofty has certainly an answer.

34

So the governing body is NOT inspired...are they still "spirit directed"?

by NikL in

okay there has been lots of buzz about the feb 2017 wt where they say the governing body is not inspired nor infallible.

yet, they are still using the baptism questions.

the second one being... "do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of jehovah’s witnesses in association with god’s spirit-directedorganization?".

TheWonderofYou

Yes of course,...in the notion of JW the phrase "is not inspired" means that God doesnt dictate us what we write or say (God dictated only directly the words of the bible writers in their notion) ...[nothing new].. wherease of course the phrase "spirit directed", means that the spirit directed us to find the right decision for the benefit of the preaching work in our office as ruling authority e.g. the spirit directed the GB lately in the decision to withdraw from New York and to invest in Warwick. [also not new]

"spirit anointed" however means the the privilege of partaking at the memorial of Jesus death as a brother of christ.

The spirit doesnt dictate the GB what to do but triggers and unleashes a certain holy useful activity in them. The GB is used by jesus to create and trigger useful explanations about knowledge of truth, what is a process of historical growth.

The clarifcations of doctrine has never been a process where the GB ALONE decided without asking the brotherhood about their opinon.