Posts by TheWonderofYou

69

Austria Begins Closing Mosques and Deporting Imams

by cofty in

austria, a member of the eu since 1995, is a country of 8.8 million people with a muslim population of around 600,000 mostly turkish immigrants.

in 2015 it passed an 'islam law' prohibiting foreign funding of religious groups and creating a duty for muslim organisations to have 'a positive fundamental view towards state and society'.. many mosques in austria have continued to receive money from turkish muslim organisations so the new right-wing government have decided to enforce the law.

seven mosques have been identified for closure and 60 imams are to be either deported or refused visas.

TheWonderofYou

In Margareten I once made my preparation courses for the civil service which I had to do after leaving JW.

The Austrian laws are not "ANTI Islam laws". Austria doesnt want that turkish domestic politics is brought to Austria and makes conflics. Secondly the turkish imams have broken the law and looke for a model to get financed somehow over Belgium, as leasing personell. 62 imams + family 150 people each year had to apply for visa.

The socialist party agrees: "The first clever idea of the new governemnt".. "Foreign financiation" is not allowed.

69

Austria Begins Closing Mosques and Deporting Imams

by cofty in

austria, a member of the eu since 1995, is a country of 8.8 million people with a muslim population of around 600,000 mostly turkish immigrants.

in 2015 it passed an 'islam law' prohibiting foreign funding of religious groups and creating a duty for muslim organisations to have 'a positive fundamental view towards state and society'.. many mosques in austria have continued to receive money from turkish muslim organisations so the new right-wing government have decided to enforce the law.

seven mosques have been identified for closure and 60 imams are to be either deported or refused visas.

TheWonderofYou

slimboyfat: "Right wing parties always warn". The calamity has arrived.

In this special case the Austrian law against foreign financation and salafist or political parties from abroad has been adopted alread before the "right wing" parties took over the goverment 150 days ago. Its a common consense.

It was fully excepted by all parties however some feared that Erdogan would misuse any harder pace as profit in his election campain.

Futhermore in many cities in Austria any salafist propaganda is forbidden on streets like giving away free Qurans or salafsit "muslim faith-explanation-booklets" that are secretly supporting false qurans versions" in thei footnotes. There is a public awareness about this false dangerous way of Islam and false, dangerous footnotes in Qurans versions deriving from Egypt schools, who want to spread the false gospel in Europe.

I often met such people making propaganda like JW with trolleys in the cities and their books and their beards some years ago in Austria. Now they are away from streets. Once I even saw a car with two guys wearing beards who even had a traffic sign entitled "The only true religion", this was / is a salafist movement from german guy who is active in Austria too.

69

Austria Begins Closing Mosques and Deporting Imams

by cofty in

austria, a member of the eu since 1995, is a country of 8.8 million people with a muslim population of around 600,000 mostly turkish immigrants.

in 2015 it passed an 'islam law' prohibiting foreign funding of religious groups and creating a duty for muslim organisations to have 'a positive fundamental view towards state and society'.. many mosques in austria have continued to receive money from turkish muslim organisations so the new right-wing government have decided to enforce the law.

seven mosques have been identified for closure and 60 imams are to be either deported or refused visas.

TheWonderofYou

he global "community of values" is crumbling. ...trumb...p...ling,, Trump sabotaging G-7, the axis is broken too last days, lets see what values Trump can find together with Kim tomorrow. Will he save the world or will the Bilderberger remain in powerl?

Funny finding:

69

Austria Begins Closing Mosques and Deporting Imams

by cofty in

austria, a member of the eu since 1995, is a country of 8.8 million people with a muslim population of around 600,000 mostly turkish immigrants.

in 2015 it passed an 'islam law' prohibiting foreign funding of religious groups and creating a duty for muslim organisations to have 'a positive fundamental view towards state and society'.. many mosques in austria have continued to receive money from turkish muslim organisations so the new right-wing government have decided to enforce the law.

seven mosques have been identified for closure and 60 imams are to be either deported or refused visas.

TheWonderofYou

Instead of sticking to the facts that

A) a very extrem political splittergroup of the turkish nationalist youth party "Grey Wolves" known for greeting or saluting each other like all turkish nationalist with the "wolve" handsign (and for once attacking Pope John Paul II with a bullet) influenced people in the "mosque" in a basement. However this group splitterted from the orginals because they were yet to tolerate. Here in Vienna little children began to salut with the wolve sign and so under suspicion that here extrem subversive ideas inmidest of Vienna were supported and influenced by this far right extremists, after the avtivity was tolerate over years, now the publicy preaching in the underground mosque was forbidden, however the association itself is not forbidden, they are normal citizens after all, haveing families, paying taxes and sucking icecreams.The people that visited the mosque are not persecuted at all. But they are protesting because they like their assembly room. Who only have some subversive messages in their heads, certainly pan-turkish dreams of pre-eminenc and dislike Kurds. It was the islamic community itself that reported this case to the authorities. = 1 mosque closed.

http://www.vienna.at/wiener-moschee-am-antonsplatz-von-schliessung-geschockt/5816084

B) The so called "arabic community" is dissolved. = 6 mosques, for salfast statements. Between the mulsim community the the arabic and muslim community is now an intensive legal battle over the subject who is saying what and who is right and they are blaming each other. The arabic community consists fo 1000 members from Egypt and Czechenia and they transmits the message of the Egyptian salafist.

C) the third part of the story are the imams who get money from abroad and have no income in Austria are not allowed any more. It could be that 150 persons and families are concerned.

instead of this the Turkish President uses this in his election battle and after calling this instantly discrimination, rassistic wave today goes so far to see a possible war between christians and muslims in Austria, (well knowing that only stupid ones in his country will believe such things and applause him for this courageous warning and loyality to his nation) verbally attacking the austrian councelor "You are responsible" and that he he is too joung to understand and should immediatly fastly withdraw this erring decision, Meanwhile the mosque associations in Austria conquer about leadership. These are critical times after all. Perhaps the next world war comes again from Europa and we are close to Armageddon and Erdogan changes his attitude conceringin Evolutiontheory or dicovery of America.

28

NWT 1984 vs NWT 2013

by Tallon in

i recently had a discussion with a jw concerning a change in wording of a scripture - in fact this was my all time favourite scripture, namely, micah 6:8.. my view is that the wtbts have deliberately changed the wording and meaning of the said scripture.

the other person is of the opinion that that is not the case.

micah 6:8.

TheWonderofYou

I looked up the word "chesedh" in the WOL-mouthpiece and it brings up numerous explanations what kind of kindness is meant, it seams that the committee was confused and selected even unconsciously once the right english word.

Perhaps its like in a marriage or friendship bond:

"tenderness" (warmly, fondly) or the more (reliable, confident)

"devotedness/faithfulness" whatever meant, but only different sides of a the coin "love". Seems that this was though a great discovery for the translators that inspired a full convention about loyalty which made "lovalty" to a BUZZ WORD, whereby it was easy to oversee how merciful God was after all and what makes it easy to prolong the fear of Armageddon for a lot of years ahead in this century.

21

Robert H. COUNTESS and John 1:1 in the NWT

by Wonderment in

robert h. countess and john 1:1 in the nwt, part iirobert h. countess made the case in his book that the nwt ‘formulated their own principle’ on the article.

under summary and conclusions, he stated: “chapter four’s conclusions regarding the handling of [theós] indicated that nwt’s translators poorly understood the greek article, and that their principle [theós]=‘a god,’ [ho theós]= ‘god’ is not legitimate.” (p. 92) is countess conclusion correct?this is what the nwt actually said after observing that both moffatt and goodspeed rendered john 1:1c in their translations as “divine.” “careful translators recognize that the articular construction of the noun points to an identity, a personality, whereas an anarthrous contruction points to a quality about someone.” in making this statement, the nw translators also had in mind the grammar by dana & mantey, in which they stated: “when identity is prominent, we find the article; and when quality or character is stressed, the construction is anarthrous [without the article].” (p. 138) also: “there are no ‘rules’ for the use of the article in greek, but there is a fundamental principle underlying its significance – as we have seen in the foregoing section – and this gives rise to a normal usage.” (ibid, p. 141) nowhere did the nwt ever affirmed that this meant [theós] without the article is always equivalent to = ‘a god,’ and [ho theós, with the article is always to be understood as = ‘god.’ even the wts would have to agree with countess that such principle is “not legitimate.” colwell first published his book in 1982, and by then the watchtower had made their position clear enough.

in 1975 the wt wrote: “this does not mean, however, that every time an anarthrous noun occurs in the greek text it should appear in english with the indefinite article.

TheWonderofYou

I dont know Countess and neither Colwell neither will I ever hardly read their books because I am German. So I contributed something what I thought could be helpful.

Generally I wonder if NWT wants to say relating to their texting "a God" that this is to be understand as "identification of the logos" or as "characteristic nature" - predicate nominative before verb - of the logos what is also "Trinitarian view?

I think that latter is from the context the only correct understanding.

Not that the word is this or that god or perhaps any god, or simply a God of more of its kind. But god is the divine nature of the word. And that the word has all attributes of the divine nature, of god

Even if you say Sherlock is a puppet, the question is do you identify it as " a puppet " one from many or as being of puppet nature possessing all attributes of puppets. But puppet is not an adjective

Or e.g. Miss So and So is artist, the artist, or "an artist would be an identifcation: an artist of many or the artist. Definite or indefinite.

Or is "an artist" a predicative noun to be read : artist is what she is. This is what describes her best. Her nature, profession, characteristics.

21

Robert H. COUNTESS and John 1:1 in the NWT

by Wonderment in

robert h. countess and john 1:1 in the nwt, part iirobert h. countess made the case in his book that the nwt ‘formulated their own principle’ on the article.

under summary and conclusions, he stated: “chapter four’s conclusions regarding the handling of [theós] indicated that nwt’s translators poorly understood the greek article, and that their principle [theós]=‘a god,’ [ho theós]= ‘god’ is not legitimate.” (p. 92) is countess conclusion correct?this is what the nwt actually said after observing that both moffatt and goodspeed rendered john 1:1c in their translations as “divine.” “careful translators recognize that the articular construction of the noun points to an identity, a personality, whereas an anarthrous contruction points to a quality about someone.” in making this statement, the nw translators also had in mind the grammar by dana & mantey, in which they stated: “when identity is prominent, we find the article; and when quality or character is stressed, the construction is anarthrous [without the article].” (p. 138) also: “there are no ‘rules’ for the use of the article in greek, but there is a fundamental principle underlying its significance – as we have seen in the foregoing section – and this gives rise to a normal usage.” (ibid, p. 141) nowhere did the nwt ever affirmed that this meant [theós] without the article is always equivalent to = ‘a god,’ and [ho theós, with the article is always to be understood as = ‘god.’ even the wts would have to agree with countess that such principle is “not legitimate.” colwell first published his book in 1982, and by then the watchtower had made their position clear enough.

in 1975 the wt wrote: “this does not mean, however, that every time an anarthrous noun occurs in the greek text it should appear in english with the indefinite article.

TheWonderofYou

Colwell rule:

(found at:

community/discussion/7905/coptic-experts-and-theologians-john-1-1)

That is Colwell's rule your useing. Wallace argues that the value of Colwell's is not for exegesis since it does not establish definiteness but only suggest probable word order in certain cases. Rather, "it is validity is for textual criticism is as follow: if it is obvious that a pre-verbal pn is definite, the MSS which lack the article are more likely to support the original reading." (Wallace, 188.) This does not help, of course. When the variant involves not just the article, but also word order. See the example (CR 16) were b and evidence this combination pattern
http://www.ntresources.com/documents/colwell.pdf

11

How credible are NWT’s critiques?: R. H. COUNTESS and John 1:1, Part I.

by Wonderment in

pre.western { font-family: "times new roman"; }pre.cjk { font-family: "noto sans cjk sc regular"; font-size: 10pt; }pre.ctl { font-family: "freesans"; font-size: 12pt; }pre::first-letter { float: left; font-size: 0%; }p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 120%; }a.cjk:visited { }a.ctl:visited { }a:link { }

TheWonderofYou

Jeff Vickens summed up at 19:35 in the above video

The JW are correct that the missing article can be read as an A so that here it could be read as a god. However they are incorrect in this instance cause the missing article in front of theos -Because it is a subject noun and not an object noun - is actually put to point the reader to the nominative predicate rule and to read God as part of the predicate of the sentence while keeping the meaning "the god". So its the combination of rules that makes the orthodox translation correct.

11

How credible are NWT’s critiques?: R. H. COUNTESS and John 1:1, Part I.

by Wonderment in

pre.western { font-family: "times new roman"; }pre.cjk { font-family: "noto sans cjk sc regular"; font-size: 10pt; }pre.ctl { font-family: "freesans"; font-size: 12pt; }pre::first-letter { float: left; font-size: 0%; }p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 120%; }a.cjk:visited { }a.ctl:visited { }a:link { }

TheWonderofYou

Referring to the question: Does " theos "without article in greek perhaps mean not god the father but simply "a God".

Is it possible according to grammar?

Dr. Jeff Vickens says it's complicated. Listen to his answer to JW. Begin listening at 14:40 to come to the core.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH_qV0UcJZs

https://www.youtube.com/attribution?v=i1Lek2-uQvs

Further excerpt from from gotquestions

www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.
1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word's function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word's root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.
2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun's case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.
3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").
The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.
The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

97

Material such as the film at the end of this years convention confirms that I was right to take my kids out the religion

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

it’s quite affirming to see the horrific material that they’re serving up at the convention this year.

aside from blatant homophobia, the scenes at the end of the convention that are discussed on another thread stoop to new levels of fear mongering.

it seems to occur to nobody inside the organisation that this kind of material could trigger fear, deprsssion, anxiety, stress.

TheWonderofYou

Finally after the film and convention one can go out of the stadium and say "Thanks J my God that I am still ALIVE! HUH" and relax. It was a great film wasn't it?

And together with the drama it means so much. The world is getting more brutal and dirty against us. Near to the end of the old world it must be if the GB features that on screen.

Let us go wherever he says now. They may repent. Even if had to choke my fate and would be swallowed by a big fish, in the end I would be preaching and be alive ...

Jehovah---zzzzz ------->>> arrow is stronger unerring!!🎺 Coureageous like Jehovah the organisation draws the bow and so should we draw ours in the service protecting us in the spiritual warfare by using all means of tactics.