Posts by DATA-DOG

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

DATA-DOG

@ Recovery,

Yes, I tried to appeal to your emotions, your heart. I did that for a very simple reason. The scriptures are written in such a way as to reveal your heart condition. Any religion can twist any scripture or use snippets, or take them completely out of context. A person can also read them with no bias and learn practical and valuable truths such as The Golden Rule. No one on this site despite their background, would argue against the world being a better place if the golden rule was followed by everyone. It would literally change the world as we know it. Here is a true story, a first hand account from me. An Elder who gave the " Special Talk " made a revealing comment during the subsequent WT Study. He said that, " as servants of Jehovah we need to be balanced ", sounds good so far.. He then said , " Sometimes we get tired and wore down and we feel that we need rest, well remember what Christ told Peter at Matthew 16:22,23! Peter told Jesus to be kind to himself and Jesus said, " Get behind me Satan! " Well, sometimes we think we need rest and time to recover, but is that balanced?". This from the Elder chosen to give the " Special Talk ", I feel sorry for a family that must live under that roof. That account was taken totally out of context to support his personal view. That was not the Fine Shepherds message at all, and Christ would never treat the flock in that manner and YOU know it. Don't make the mistake of not getting the import of Christ's words to the Pharisees at John 5:39,40, prayerfully consider them.

I just tried to touch your heart with principles that cannot be taken out of context.

31

Field Service Requirements

by DATA-DOG in

has there ever been any official letters stating the amount of field service required to be considered exemplary?

usually the number given is 10hrs, but if you look up " 10 hours " in the cd-library you get 14 hits.

none from the bible of course, and only 3-5 are related to field service.

DATA-DOG

Hello everyone,

Has there ever been any official letters stating the amount of field service required to be considered exemplary? Usually the number given is 10hrs, but if you look up " 10 hours " in the CD-Library you get 14 hits. None from the Bible of course, and only 3-5 are related to field service. Even then, none are mentioning an hourly requirement. So is it all off the record? Are there any GB letters about this, or is it just an un-written organizational policy? Thanks in advance ( you too Recovery and 5th column ).

78

HOW TO IDENTIFY THE TRUE RELIGION

by Fifth Column in

jesus said that the true religion would be evident in the lives of the people who practice it.

by their fruits you will recognize them, he said.

every good tree produces fine fruit.

DATA-DOG

@ Fifth Column,

1 Corinthians 4:6

Matthew 9:13

Ezekiel 13: 1-7

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

DATA-DOG

Correction: " You have nothing to LOSE and everything to gain...." Late night for me too. Seriously we all know how you feel, take break and get some rest. Just process for a while, its not a competition.

1) Christ knows his sheep.

2) We can do nothing against the truth

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

DATA-DOG

@ Recovery,

I wish you would tell your story. You seem conflicted. We are pushing your buttons, but only because you are making it easy. I think most of us have been conflicted and it hurts. I believe that you KNOW something doesn't add up. Learning that you have been misled can be hard to take. Even if you can accept that, you are still left with the question of what to do next. Its hard. It is like being the only fish around who knows he is in a fish-bowl. Sure thos plants look real, and there is a treasure chest, but its fake!! Just take it slow and don't expect to know it all. Don't believe any one who says they know it all because they are lying. DO NOT PUT YOUR TRUST IN NOBLES, OR IN THE SONS OF EARTHLING MEN. TO WHOM NO SALVATION BELONGS! How much simpler could it be? When you have a group of men from ANY background who don't have all the answers but expect blind obedience, you have a problem. Especially if those men are so judgmental that they will punish you for even questioning them! IF you believe that the JW's have the truth and no one else out of Billions of people are doing anything that pleases Christ, then you shouldn't be here. A speaker the other day said from the platform that no one else in the world preaches about God's kingdom except JW's. That simply is not true. I know many people change their lives for the better after they become JW's, but that is because they are applying the principles of the scriptures. We just don't know it all like we say we do, we do not have a monopoly on truth. I would like to suggest that you watch the " Channel of God " series on youtube. I know you can't watch everything and that your time is limited, but if you really are interested in learning TTATT then please watch those videos. They do not attack anyone, they just present the facts. Just remember that the GB have said they are not infallible, so what gives them the right to act like they are? They should be the most humble men on the earth. Just remember that you have nothing to learn and everything to gain by honestly examining all things, you must love truth.

7

false prophets

by fakesmile in

im just thinking out loud here, which isnt exactly my strong suit.

but how can an organisation send half cocked "ministers" who are uneducated/ ill prepared and often have the most atrocious family arrangements, to tell complete strangers how they should live their lives?

is it an inside joke?

DATA-DOG

@ Cold Steel,

Themselves ??!!

@ Fakesmile,

People with sucky lives can easily be drawn into a group that controls them. It is like joining a gang, or being a G.I in the army. It sucks too, but you have some security in your mind. So you keep an eye out for people to " help ". It is just a numbers game, the more you send out slaves and the more those slave believe they have found something the harder they preach. Sooner or later they find someone who needs a gang to run with. There are a few that make it in the upper ranks like bethel and the GB, but most are cannon fodder sharing their suffering together. It is messed up!!! It is a great system like Tootired2care said. Your slaves, or company men or rank-and-file recruit for the corporation. Everyone suffers but somehow the machine just won't die! I think the pay-off for the members is alleviating the guilt that they have been brainwashed into feeling. They don't really understand the very book they are supposed to follow because grace has nothing to do with a certain amount of prescribed works. Like I said, they are messed up.

147

Psychoanalyzing the Governing Body as a Collective Body by what they cause to be written in literature and private letters:

by frankiespeakin in

now would any "psychologist" on the board and i use the term loosely as i am not one professionally , and have a very rudimentary hazy knowledge of analysis.. but one of the things jung had to do with the subject is the shadow to be properly analyzed one needs to recognize the shadow we all have we all have one.

and what happens when we repress a lot of things and stuff them into ones personal shadow, they get stronger and cause projection on the outside world that make one respond certain ways that might be termed as phobias or neurosis and even psychosis.. im sure we can spot a lot of denial and repression surfacing in what they cause to be published either publicly and in private correspondence.

perhaps even some phobias or out right neurosis.. i bett you a really skilled psychologist could have a fruit picking holiday with the stuff they find on the net already published far and wide for all to see.

DATA-DOG

Well, I am an INTJ, and I say they suck. and are not the boss of me!! Good points everyone!!

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

DATA-DOG

Recovery out in service:

Recovery: Hello, and good morning! I am in a voluntary Bible educational work. I would like to ask if you feel that the Bible has practical information for us today?

Mr. Householder: No, the bible is just a bunch of rhetoric!!

Recovery: May I ask kind sir, have you ever read the Bible in its entirety?

Mr. Householder: No, the bible is just a bunch of rhetoric!!

Recovery: Do you feel that is a fair judgment since you have not even read the Bible?

Mr Householder: Your not the boss of me!!! Get lost you circular reasoning, non-thinking, rhetoric spreading rabble rouser!! Rhetoric I tell ya!!!

Recovery: Have a good day sir.

( back at the car group )

Brother Mc Doitall: Well Recovery, that looked like it went well.

Recovery: Not really ( sniff,sniff ) He thought the Bible was a bunch of rhetoric..

Brother Mc Doitall: Has he read the bible himself?!

Recovery: No!! He is a real self-righteouss douche and a hypocrite!! ( sniff,sob,sniff )

Brother Mc Doitall: There, there Recovery, don't worry. That A-Hole will get whats coming to him for being a hypocrite!!! Thank God we don't behave that way by passing judgment when we haven't even read something!!! HAHHAHAHAHA!!!

Recovery: Yeah!! HAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Rest of car group: YEAH! ( group laughter)

Recovery: Let's hit Starbucks, defending truth make me thirsty!!

DATA-DOG

147

Psychoanalyzing the Governing Body as a Collective Body by what they cause to be written in literature and private letters:

by frankiespeakin in

now would any "psychologist" on the board and i use the term loosely as i am not one professionally , and have a very rudimentary hazy knowledge of analysis.. but one of the things jung had to do with the subject is the shadow to be properly analyzed one needs to recognize the shadow we all have we all have one.

and what happens when we repress a lot of things and stuff them into ones personal shadow, they get stronger and cause projection on the outside world that make one respond certain ways that might be termed as phobias or neurosis and even psychosis.. im sure we can spot a lot of denial and repression surfacing in what they cause to be published either publicly and in private correspondence.

perhaps even some phobias or out right neurosis.. i bett you a really skilled psychologist could have a fruit picking holiday with the stuff they find on the net already published far and wide for all to see.

DATA-DOG

I took 1 semester of psychology in High School. My professional opinions is " They want to be the boss of you. " Well, my common sense tells me to apply what I know of individual behavior to collective behavior. We all know a jerk who wants to be your boss, and has control issues. They are always projecting their views on to other people. If they have personal issues with, let's say over-eating, they always mention what everyone else is eating. They can't help but look around the restaraunt and mentally count calories going into everyone elses mouth. Secretly...secretly...they want to eat everything they tell you not to eat! They cannot control themselves so... they try to control others. If you get enough people with that type of personality together, you have a collective of controlling jerks. The only way to move up the ladder is to be controlling like them or let them be the boss of you. If you don't play ball you get " marked " as a rebel. We now have an organization filled with controlling bosses, and those they boss around. It sucks.. No one wants to be around people who behave that way. It can take years to accept parts of yourself that may be dark. I agree with Jung, you must on some level acknowledge your " shadow " even though you don't have to give in to it.

19

Revelation 19:1 omitted from NWT index?

by DATA-DOG in

i am just curious about something.

the term great crowd of other sheep does not exist in the scriptures.

while looking into the great crowd of revelation i noticed that revelation 19:1 is not included in the index under the term great crowd.

DATA-DOG

Thanks everyone. @ Blondi, thank you for that info. I had been searching articles and just went right past the reasoning book. I guess that the official stand at this point is Revelation 19:1 is not the same great crowd in other verses. The CD-library is a maze of information, a forrest of mirrors. I had to stop looking because I was getting a headache.