jeremiah18:5-10

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Posts by jeremiah18:5-10

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  50

  "Why Do Many Male Jehovah Witnesses Who Learn TTATT Grow Beards"?

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the year once 1983 and the brother who use to study the bible with me drove by and had a full on "charles manson" looking facial hair and beard.

  i asked tina, a friend what's up with him?

  tina was 19 and a hot red-head woman who was partially in the religion but had problems with fornication.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  My wife asked me to, loved it and it stayed.
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  12

  Who is it really disciplining????

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

  this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

  the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  @ sir82

  Curiously, if disfellowshipped JWs are honest and state those reasons as their motivation for wanting to return, they'll never be allowed to.

  I.e., as a final indignity, disfellowshipped JWs must lie to the elders bout their reason for wanting to return, if they are to have any hope of actually doing so.

  Personally, I don't think those who try to return would have to lie. I don't think they realize their motives are messed up. I believe they associate "returning to the congregation" with "returning to Jehovah" it's one and the same to them. Unfortunately it's not the same!!

  I've attempted to return 3 times, and each time was for the above stated reasons, even though I didn't realize it, now I do. Even if I did make such a return successfully, I can't unlearn what I have discovered in my own Bible study and research from this site and others. I would be nothing but miserable. i would have to put on an act around friends and family and be untrue to myself. No way I'm ever going to live like that. Kudos to those who can!
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  12

  Who is it really disciplining????

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

  this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

  the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  @sir82

  Therefore, how satisfying and rewarding is it for an individual to betray their true self and convictions just to maintain relationships with individuals (friends or family) that we realize are obviously blinded and mentally captive and who are delusional in thinking that we are the ones that are "sick, misguided, and mislead"?

  I realize that the ultimate desire of such ones whether DF'd or inactive or fading is that they will help their believing friends and family to escape in tact. Truly that is a noble endeavor and to be admired. But at what cost to you? What cost to your family that has left with you? I also realize this is a touchy subject and I'm in no way ridiculing those who make this difficult choice, I simply have a difficult time comprhending it anymore.

  For me anyway, my personal integrity far outweighed any supposed, hoped-for accomplishment that I likely would never achieve by hanging on and staying in. Perhaps I'm selfish. Perhaps I'm just lucky because I escaped with my wife and kids, something many of you have not been able to do. I feel for you.

  Still, I maintain that actually owning your convictions and living accordingly will not only result in a better, happier life for you, but will also be more likely to have a deep impact on the still-believing family members trapped inside. I believe this because what keeps them in more than anything is "who else would we go to?" or "where else would we go?" Whichever the WT question that they mis-quote is. Therefore I propose that by finding happiness and success outside of the WT and moving on actually shows them that there is somehwere to go and that there is happiness and satisfaction to be had in life outside of the WT. Who knows how powerful and impactful that could be in giving them the courage to wake up.

  Thats my hope and belief anyway. I hope I'm not to naieve about this and I hope no one takes this position as being disrespectful toward those who stay in for the sake of family.
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  57

  Did YOU Go A Bit Wild or Crazy When You Left The "Truth"?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious..

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  Actually it happened before I "left the 'truth'", that's why I got DF'd- lol
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  12

  Who is it really disciplining????

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

  this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

  the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  @ Phizzy

  I think that living a happy life free of the WT speaks volumes, but is no gurantee it will free other JW's.

  Is there any action that would guarantee freeing other JW's? I don't believe so.

  The thing is all of the devout ones have a persecution complex and a cult-mind, any attempt to free their mind or to reason with them is met with thier pre-programmed response of intellectually shutting down, I used to be just like that. There's no desire to see the TTATT. Only the desire to stay in the "spiritual paradise".

  I dare say the only way to ever reach one is to make life appear better on your side, not through words, but rather through actions. They have to develop the "crack" in their faith themselves. It has to occur naturally, it can't be forced.
• 
  12

  Who is it really disciplining????

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

  this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

  the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  The WTS sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers. This practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family. The WTS backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being DF'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the DF'ed person.

  The claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to Jehovah. Is this really so?

  For this to be an effective act of loving discipline, it would require that the wrongdoer really wants to return, that perhaps they just need an attitude adjustment towards their wrongdoing. Perhaps that is what some JW's want and perhaps need. But even with these individuals would their return really be motivated out of a pure heart with a desire to return to Jehovah or rather motivated by other forces?

  In most cases, those who return do so because of 3 reasons. 1.) Missing their family that has cut them off. 2.) missing the congregation members that have cut them off. or 3.) Not being able to function normally in society and thus needing the only social circle they've ever known.

  For the most part, it is NOT due to some deep desire to return to Jehovah or the WT. **disclaimer- there are, I'm sure, isolated cases of individuals having such lofty, pure. albeit misguided motives.

  What if the "wrongdoer" however is apathetic or very definitively doesn't want to return? What if they have no interest in living an immoral life or getting involved in politics or violence or any other "bad" conduct? Is such a person benefitted by this "loving discipline" at all?

  It would seem obvious to me that any person that has decided to move on with their life, spirituality, and goals outside of the WT would not be benefitted EVER by this act of DFing. Instead, the only thing that comes from it is a complete and utter destruction of their family life, assuming they have family "still in".

  The still-believing family then becomes the ONLY one being disciplined. The DFed person moves on and develops other friends, social and professional contacts and perhaps builds an emotional wall around the previous family relationships, turning off those feelings and emotions.

  This is exactly where I'm at in my life. I have only my wife, kids, and one brother that I can "associate" with. My parents, my in laws and extended family, all of which are JW's, have nothing to do with me or my family (even though I'm the only one DF'ed).

  What is the result? I have "cut them off" emotionally, not allowing them to hurt me. I have nothing invested in them anymore. They wield no power over me. Sure I would love to have some sort of a relationship (one that doesn't involve religion at all) but I have learned how to HAPPILY live without it.

  The effect of this has been rather interesting. Over the last few weeks my parents have reached out to me. My dad called me over Christmas and in the course of our conversation, he asked if we were celebrating Christmas, he quickly said, it doesn't matter to me either way, just curious. I replied that I will not answer any questions of that nature or about my religious beliefs at all. I said that we talk so little I do not want what little time we get to be contentious. He paused and then said he agreed and that he too wanted to enjoy our brief association. He conveyed that he missed my children and hearing from us. A few days later my mom called my wife and had a similar discussion.

  I have informed them that I have every intention of respecting their beliefs and faith as long as they will respect my right to having my own beliefs and faith. I also have stipulated that if you do not want your faith to be weakened due to association with me, then never bring up religious matters or beliefs. There are plenty of other things in life to discuss and enjoy without ever discussing religion.

  I have not completely re-opened my heart or emotions at this point. I am going to move forward cautiously.

  What I have determined is that, while I wish my parents and inlaws would learn the TTATT and leave the WTS, that it will never ever happen as a result of talking to them about anything religious or by trying to disprove their beliefs. All this does is bring up the cult-inculcated reaction of an apostate alarm. They immediately shut down any cognitive, critical thinking skills and immediately slide into defense mode. Regardless of what you say or how compelling it may be, all they hear is "I'm an apostate, I want to lead you away from Jehovah" all they see is "the Devil".

  Therefore, I have decided the most effective way to defeat the DFing policy is by simply living a happy, successful, clean, moral life. By enjoying my children and their lives, and demonstrating that the WTS has NO CONTROL or INFLUENCE over me anymore. This drives them crazy and intrigues them. JW's are convinced that you cannot be happy outside of the organization. Happiness and success and having no "hard feelings" toward the WTS and the congregation, etc is the most powerful attack.

  I am commited to this tactic and am hopeful that I will have success.

  What are your thoughts? Have any had success with this tactic?
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  14

  Do you know me? Do I know you?

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since leaving the wts i've struggled mightily to make friends and adjust socially.

  i would really like to find some people that i know and reconnect if any happen to be on here.

  so i'm going to reveal my name and ask that if you know me or our paths have crossed, please reach out to me.. i'm "no longer one of jehovah's witnesses" so why not?.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  @ Honeybucket thanks for clearing up dreamgolfer comment, I had no clue what the inside joke was, lol.

  @Tameria2001, I may send you a PM the next time I head down to NWA and see about getting some coffee or something. Would love to actually meet someone from this board.
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  14

  Do you know me? Do I know you?

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since leaving the wts i've struggled mightily to make friends and adjust socially.

  i would really like to find some people that i know and reconnect if any happen to be on here.

  so i'm going to reveal my name and ask that if you know me or our paths have crossed, please reach out to me.. i'm "no longer one of jehovah's witnesses" so why not?.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  Blindersoff- Search by name or location?

  I've searched by location, found one person that I knew "captivenomore" but she hasn't been active on here for a couple of years.

  I tried to ascertain if I know purplesofa or John Doe but I don't think I do.

  Any specific suggestions of what to search for?
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  14

  Do you know me? Do I know you?

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since leaving the wts i've struggled mightily to make friends and adjust socially.

  i would really like to find some people that i know and reconnect if any happen to be on here.

  so i'm going to reveal my name and ask that if you know me or our paths have crossed, please reach out to me.. i'm "no longer one of jehovah's witnesses" so why not?.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  Well Thanks for the replies so far.

  I might ry the ex-jw meetup thing, didn't know that existed.

  Thanks
• 
  14

  Do you know me? Do I know you?

  by jeremiah18:5-10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since leaving the wts i've struggled mightily to make friends and adjust socially.

  i would really like to find some people that i know and reconnect if any happen to be on here.

  so i'm going to reveal my name and ask that if you know me or our paths have crossed, please reach out to me.. i'm "no longer one of jehovah's witnesses" so why not?.

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  jeremiah18:5-10

  Not to irritate anyone, but unreplied to topics slide back so fast and I hope to find someone that I know, so I'm going to bump this to the top periodically. I realize the odds are stacked against me in this endeavor, but I will press on.

  BTW I am now in Springfield, Mo and I'm 41 years old.