Posts by Tekel

16

Views on the Creation of the Universe

by simon17 in

i was thinking the other day about the fascinating dichotomy of how the creation of the universe plays a role in the belief system of believers and non-believers.

it is the difference between a top-down vs. bottom-up view of reality.

in this post i'm mainly disucssing highly rational, scientific type believers and non-believers, open to fully exploring their belief system, of which i have talked to many.. to the non-believer, the creation event, the big bang, is the one utterly unexplainable event.

Tekel

james_woods,

Not one person in this thread says that a non-causal event like the Big Bang proves that a God exists. Your using the analogy of a causal event, a quarter found under a pillow is the only bad science I see on this page.

While I agree that the universe collapsing upon itself is not likely, there are still factors which could eventually move scientists to change their minds. Science can not explain what dark energy or dark matter is, and while both these things seem to keep the universe from contracting, we simply do not know enough to completely rule out a Big Crunch being the ultimate fate of this universe.

16

Views on the Creation of the Universe

by simon17 in

i was thinking the other day about the fascinating dichotomy of how the creation of the universe plays a role in the belief system of believers and non-believers.

it is the difference between a top-down vs. bottom-up view of reality.

in this post i'm mainly disucssing highly rational, scientific type believers and non-believers, open to fully exploring their belief system, of which i have talked to many.. to the non-believer, the creation event, the big bang, is the one utterly unexplainable event.

Tekel

smiddy,

What you've described is called the Big Crunch, of all the possible future outcomes for our universe, this one is considered the most unlikely by scientists, most rule it out completely. This because of recent data collected which shows the universe is not just expanding but speeding up.

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Views on the Creation of the Universe

by simon17 in

i was thinking the other day about the fascinating dichotomy of how the creation of the universe plays a role in the belief system of believers and non-believers.

it is the difference between a top-down vs. bottom-up view of reality.

in this post i'm mainly disucssing highly rational, scientific type believers and non-believers, open to fully exploring their belief system, of which i have talked to many.. to the non-believer, the creation event, the big bang, is the one utterly unexplainable event.

Tekel

"So ultimately I found it interesting: The creation of the universe for me is the one thing of which I am fully unsure. For the believer, the same event instead serves as the one unshakeable proof."

Hi Simon17, If you aren't familiar with the subject of Digital Physics, sometimes described as "it from bit", I would suggest checking it out.

The universe at its core is computational, all matter is just information. Viewing the universe from this perspective removes any "hows" or "whys" regarding pre-Big Bang. For a person like myself who is both a scientist and a person of faith, it provides metaphysical answers too. The goals of Digital Physics research are in no way spiritual, it's just a nice side effect.

Incidentally, it's usually not the case that scientists are atheists. That has not been my experience at least.

46

stake or cross?

by Tekel in

Tekel

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum. And thank you BlackSheep for letting me know about the IE9 issue - strange since this site appears to have been built using Microsoft software.

Anyway, I was raised a Jehovah's Witness from the age of 2 or 3, baptized when I was probably about 15, and left the organization when I was 20. I am now in my 40s. My parents remained JWs until their passing, my dad passed away about 2 years ago at which point I was forced to communicate with JWs again. Losing my dad was hard enough, add to that having to deal with JW elders and others, the experience brought back a lot of bad memories but it also reminded me how lucky I was that I had escaped the brain washing they had given me for so many years.

Reading your replies to my question, stake or cross?, I was fascinated to see some of the same spectrum of feelings I had towards the JW cult after I left. For example, I understand that it doesn't matter whether or not it was a cross or a stake when you stop to think about the importance of Christ's message, and what he offered us (I should also point out that I believe that there are other paths to salavation besides the Christian one). But as OldGenerationDude points out, which was my reason for posting this topic; the very fact that an organization can make a claim such as their's regarding a "torture stake" and brainwash everyone of its members into believing it (when the evidence to the contrary isn't just interpretation of scripture but hard cold facts), it shows just how despicable and disgusting the Watchtower Society really is.

Does it matter to God if we believe it was a cross or a stake? Or that we celebrate birthday parties or not? I say no. But if you are a JW and believe it was a cross or you do celebrate your birthday or your child's, well you know what happens. All this from an organization that calls itself "The Truth".

Should it matter to those of us who have left? I suppose in some ways, not worrying about these things anymore is better than the alternative but at the same time I can't help but think of good people who still believe these lies.

I very much appreciate the time all of you took to respond to my post. I had found similar information in other places but some of what was posted is very new to me. The post about Koine Greek was really great. This thread was an awesome read for me and I hope that persons who are still under control of the Watchtower Society stumble upon it and end up feeling the same.

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