Posts by RR

they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

RR

I recently ordered a copy of Studies in the Scriptures all 6 volumes that Russell produced in one big book.

Yes, that is a large volume that contains all six volumes, plus Tabernacle Shadows. It's printed by the Fort Worth Bible Students.

12

Saw an ad on TV for the Bible Students last night...

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

caught the very end of the commercial.

they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

RR

Care to elaborate?

The DAWN was formed in 1932, it was originally a radio program between 1928 and 1931, then reformed as Dawn Publishers, Inc. in 19312 and in the 1940s moved to New Jersey under its current name Dawn Bible Students Association.

In the 1930s they were successfull in regathering the Bible Students, at least most of them. They grew, and while they promoted themselves as a "non-channel" organization (a reference to the Society claiming to be God's Channel) they eventually began believing their own hype, as they grew and prosper. They became to the Associated Bible Students what the Society became to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Norman Woodworth, the Dawn'ws founder was looked upon as the leader of the Bible Students. They were the largest publisher of Bible Students literature and so if you wanted something, you had to order it from them, or publish your own. They instituted the pilgrim visits (travelling overseers). When they began rejecting Russell's doctrines, they attempted to get the congregations to put away Russell volumes and study the DAWN and it's publications.

Soon enough with all the changes, as I mentioned above, classes began to split or divorce themselves from the DAWN to function independently. Dawn representatives began pulling a Judge Rutherford, and marking the so-called trouble markers. It got ugly.

Even I fell victim to the DAWN about 5 years ago. They treated me worse than the Watchtower Society. They still do, but what doesn't kill me, makes me stronger, and I'm still a thorn in their side.

I guess you can say I'm the Ray Franz of the DAWN Movement. LOL

12

Saw an ad on TV for the Bible Students last night...

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

caught the very end of the commercial.

they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

RR

I read RR's comments at "bible students.net". Just saying, is all. Very interesting, Ray, very interesting.

My name isn't Ray, it's Rolando Rodriguez. But thanks for visiting biblestudents.net

12

Saw an ad on TV for the Bible Students last night...

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

caught the very end of the commercial.

they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

RR

RR – Are you an Associated Bible Student? Are you with a particular group?

You know it's hard to categorize any of the groups by name.

Over 100 years ago all the congregations were IBSA, then in 1914 the IBSA was incorporated and C.T. Russell suggested that all congregation take the name Associated BIble Students.

Then the split occurred in 1917, and those associated with the Society eventually took the IBSA name again, because those who left kept using the ABS name. Then the 1931 came along and took the name JW's.

During that time several groups were formed, the Pastoral Bible Institute, the Standfast Bible Students Association, Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, Elijah Voice Society, Berean Bible Students Assoctaion, the Dawn Bible Students Association.

During the spilt in 1917, those who left considered themselves Independent Bible Students, or Free Bible Students. By 1935 most of the groups had faded, many who considered themselves independent, were just lone congregations, who felt the Society served it's purpose once Russell died, and so did not align themselves with any of the newly formed groups.

By the mid 1930s, the Dawn had risen to the top as the sucessor's to C.T. Russell's ministry. And many congregations old and new rallied around her. They became Associated Bible Students, for a time many called themselves Dawn BIble Students of .... (insert city).

But then the Dawn began to make changes, teach contrary to what was generally accepted by the Bible Students, while they continue to print the Studies in the Scriptures, they no longer believed in much of what was taught. So they taught contrary to what was taught in the very books they published and distributed.

This and other issues cause a major schism in the DAWN, and a new independent movement started. This time there was no concerted effort to form a new group outside of the Dawn, although some tried. For the most part those who left the DAWN, used the congregation as a tool for witnessing. So those congregation affiliated or formed by the DAWN, changed their names. The Associated Bible Students of New Brunswick, NJ became the Bible Students Congregation of New Brunswick and became publishing the Volumes, and other books, tracts and booklets and DVD's. The Associated Bible STudents of Fort Worth, TX, became the Fort Worth Bible Students, they too published the volumes, books, booklets, tracts, a journal and produced both a Television program and Radio program.

Other congregations became doing the same.

So while you can't categorize a particular group and say "I am a Dawner" or "I am of the a PBI", you can categorize individuals.

There are Conservative and Ultra conservative Bible Students, those who follow C.T. Russell, then there are the Liberals and ultra Liberals, those, like the DAWN who pick and choose what they want to accept and either reject or ignore the others.

There may be conservative congregations, but some of the members may be liberal or Conservatives in a liberal class, because that is all there is.

In some cases there will be 3 or 4 different classes in the same area, all different.

There are conservative and liberal conventions and then there are mixed conventions with both sides.

As for me? While my association is liberal, my beliefs are conservative. I am a true blue Russellite, and independent, not affiliated with any of the groups.

RR

67

Does everyone like you?

by asilentone in

jw
friends

do you have someone that dislikes you?

if you would like to share your story, i would like to see it.

thanks!

RR

Do you have someone that dislikes you?

Plenty of people dislike me, but who cares, that's their problem!

22

The Spain Branch will pay now to: bethelites, special pioneers, Circuit y Distric and missionaires

by JHK in

the spain branch, now will pay directly to: bethelites, special pioneers, circuit, district and missionaries... with our money!

the congregations must not given money to the full time ministers.

the governing body bank wants to have all money in its hands.

RR

You see, Jehovah DOES provide

12

Saw an ad on TV for the Bible Students last night...

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

caught the very end of the commercial.

they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

RR

Several Bible Student groups are affiliated with THE DAWN. Back in the late 1960s there was split when the DAWN began publishing "new light" that many considered error. As a result several groups were formed, congregations split and a new independent movement started. The DAWN, while just a publishing house (so they claim) is still the largest of the Bible Student groups.

I'm a Bible Student, but am not affiliated with the DAWN, at least not any more.

RR

15

Public Talk Outlines

by cinnamon1642 in

jw
friends

now that reexamine.org and watchtowerobserver aren't working, i'm wondering if someone has a zip of all the public talk outlines that they could post on sendspace or email to me?

if so please pm me and i will give my email address.. thanks.

RR

Okay, yesterday I was going through some boxes in a part of the basement that I have a loty of my old "stuff" and found 88 outlines 1 -88, dating from 02/1966 to 01/1968. None of them were the same as the download above. I haven't found the 40s and 50s outline, I hope I didn't ebay them ... LOL

RR