Posts by RunningMan

40

When Revelation Turns Obsolete

by metatron in

jw
friends

one of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.

the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.

conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.

RunningMan

You are correct in saying that the Bible's view of women is obsolete.
However, I do not believe that this will cripple the Bible any more than
the many other obsolescences it contains.

Consider slavery, for example. The Bible contains instructions for slave
owners, and does not say even a single word against it. If anything, it
advocates slavery. Yet, slavery has disappeared from the civilized world
today, and the Bible's viewpoint is cheerily forgotten.

Some churches today, have already abandoned the Bible's view of women
by ordaining them as ministers. So, someday, hopefully, the Bible's archaic
view of women will be as dead as its view of slavery.

8

WT on its knees in Czech Rep....Answer from Norm!

by ISP in

jw
friends

here's the figures the from the other thread.. czech republic.

1992 service year report.

av.

RunningMan

A quick analysis of the numbers indicates that something fairly
dramatic has happened to the reporting country.

In 1992, the population of the reporting country was 15,229,008.
This is derived by multiplying the publishers (24884) by the ratio (612).

In 2001 the population of the reporting country was 10,128,258.

There has been a decrease in ratio (from 651 to 612). As well, the
ratio of baptisms per publisher has dropped from 1:9 to 1:47, and the
bible studies per publisher has dropped from .83 to .36.

So, the work really has dramatically slowed down in this country. But,
don't forget to take out the effects of the different reporting country.

9

Can someone explain the "new light" o...

by Leander in

jw
friends

i've been thinking about the change in this doctrine and i'm not sure i fully understand it.

can someone explain it?.

also was'nt there other changes made before in regards to this generation doctrine?

RunningMan

You're right. Here it is:

"Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to
realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this
generation' nearly 70 years old today. So the great majority of the generation to which
Jesus was referring has already passed away in death. The remaining ones are
approaching old age. And remember, Jesus said that the end of this wicked world would
come before the generation passed away in death. This of itself, tells us that the years
left before the foretold end comes cannot be many." - AW 10/8/68 p13-14

"If you assume that 10 is the age at which an event creates a lasting impression on
a person's memory, then there are today more than 13 million Americans who have
a recollection of World War I. And if the wicked system of this world survived until the
turn of the century,which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment
of Bible prophecy, there will still be survivors of the World War I generation. However,
the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that 'the conclusion of the
system of things' is moving fast towards its end." - WT 10/15/80 p31

"If Jesus used 'generation' in the sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of
that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their
80's or 90's., a few having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that
generation alive. Some of them 'will by no means pass away until all things occur.'
- Luke 21:32." - WT 5/15/84

"Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy today, 'this generation' apparently
refers to the peoples of the earth who see the sign of Christ's presence but fail to
mend their ways."- WT 11/1/95 p19

6

Submission to authority

by joelbear in

jw
friends

one of the core beliefs that i hold is that the only hope for humanity is the willingness to submit to some guiding force.. witnesses would point to jehovah as being that guiding force.. as of now, i would point to love for others being that guiding force.

one of the main differences i have with the witnesses is that they see god as a person with a personality and a planned agenda.

i see god as a mindset that we either choose to be part of or not based on our willingness to submit to this idea of loving others.. are you willing to submit to any authority, whether an actual identity or an ideology?

RunningMan

I'll buy the comments about love and not submitting to human
authority. But, other than human authority, what other type is
there? The authority of religion and imaginary Gods is even worse
than human authority (actually, it's just human authority in disguise).

As far as love is concerned, it is a great ideal, but I'm not sure if
submission is the right word to use in connection with it.

17

Terry Pratchett's "Small Gods"

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

i have been reading terry pratchett's "small gods" and finding myself either laughing outloud or reading protions outloud to anyone within earshot.

what a great, funny, truthful indictment of religion and the messes it gets us all into.

go out and buy a copy, you won't regret it.. i keep thinking i should post some passages on this board.

RunningMan

It sounds great.

On a similar note, I highly recommend the books of James Morrow. He
writes fiction that often has a religious base. For example:

Towing Jehovah - God dies and falls into the ocean, where a sea captain
is hired to haul him to his grave.

Blameless in Abbadon - Sequel to Towing Jehovah. It turns out God is not
dead after all, merely comatose. He is towed to Europe where he stands
trial for crimes against humanity.

The Eternal Footman - Third book in the series, which I haven't read yet.

Bible Stories for Adults - Kind of like "My Book of Bible Stories", but with
the contents that you knew should have always been there, such as the
story of the lascivious sinner fished out of the water by Noah.

Great reading.

14

Can we understand the message of the Bible

by Bill Parker in

jw
friends

reply to question- can we understand the message of the bible?.

joel bear made the following comment to me: as one of jehovahs witnesses who bears his name, why not give a well thought out answer to the question.. .

the questions as far as i can determine are this: why is the bible so ambiguous that so many interpretations are possible?

RunningMan

----"What would you do to have your creation obey you?"

Well, first of all, if my objective was blind obedience, I wouldn't have
given them free will. Think about it. Our options under the Jehovah
scenario are:
1. Obey God and live
2. Disobey God and Die
So, really, if this is the case, free will is just a death trap.

Secondly, why is God so hung up on obedience and praise. He seems very
insecure, even egomaniacal. I think he needs a shrink.

---"What would you do if your spiritual creation has acted like they could do
whatever they wanted?"

Can't we? If we can't do whatever we want, then God has not truly given us
freedom. Besides, what kind of ruler/father/god wants nothing but blind
obedience. If I were God, I would want my creations to use thier minds and
come up with original things. Maybe they could surprise me. Maybe they
could even correct me.

---"and didn't care what you thought of their actions?

I don't think that God cares about our actions. Really, the human race has
seen every extreme in behavior from Hitler to Mother Theresa, and God's reaction
is precisely the same - nothing. The only record of him taking any sort of action
is in a poorly written, non-credible book. For 2000 years, there hasn't even been
that.

6

Submission to authority

by joelbear in

jw
friends

one of the core beliefs that i hold is that the only hope for humanity is the willingness to submit to some guiding force.. witnesses would point to jehovah as being that guiding force.. as of now, i would point to love for others being that guiding force.

one of the main differences i have with the witnesses is that they see god as a person with a personality and a planned agenda.

i see god as a mindset that we either choose to be part of or not based on our willingness to submit to this idea of loving others.. are you willing to submit to any authority, whether an actual identity or an ideology?

RunningMan

I disagree. All of the great improvements of the human race have been
initiated by people who refuse to submit to authority.

Think of how much damage was done by those who submitted to Hitler.
What about those who follow the Taliban, or other religious fundmentalists?
On the other hand, where would we be if Galileo or Darwin submitted to
authority? These people lifted us out of the dark ages because they went their
own way.

If every person evaluates their reigning authority and reacts appropriately, we will
have better leaders, more effective government, and ultimately, authorities that
are responsible to the beliefs of their followers.

14

Can we understand the message of the Bible

by Bill Parker in

jw
friends

reply to question- can we understand the message of the bible?.

joel bear made the following comment to me: as one of jehovahs witnesses who bears his name, why not give a well thought out answer to the question.. .

the questions as far as i can determine are this: why is the bible so ambiguous that so many interpretations are possible?

RunningMan

Well, SC, that wasn't particularly coherent, but here goes.

If life, and all that stuff is a gift, why do we have to obey him to get it? If we have to
act a certain way to get the gift, then it really isn't a gift freely given, it is earned payment
for our behavior.

As far as discerning his ways from the Bible, I don't have a problem with that. My
objection is that the Bible is a pretty poor piece of communication - not what you
would expect from the almighty of the universe. If he can do anything, why can't he
write a clear piece of prose?

21

Shooting.....Factory in Goshen, Indiana

by dubla in

jw
friends

its not too often that this magnitude of a tragedy hits our small neck of the woods, but this one is big.

apparently a disgruntled employee burst into a factory (nu wood), and shot around 35 employees......no details on the shooter yet, or the casulties.

the factory is located in goshen, which is about 10 miles from my office here in elkhart, indiana.

RunningMan

Yoyo:

If there is a tragedy today, it is because conditions are deteriorating,
and the end is near.

If there is no tragedy today, then the call for peace and security will
soon be uttered, and the end is near.

We've heard it all before, yawn.

By the way, you are appropriately named.

16

Should JW's Visit A Hypnotist?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

no!.

i recall that the wt stated that one's mind was open to demon possession when in a hypnotic trance.. this is quite curious, during the 50's my dad dabbled in hypnotism prior to becoming a jw, one of his old pals told me that he saw him hypnotise a woman who then allowed him to stick pins in her thumb without her feeling any pain at all.. i have seen a hypnotist transfix a friend of mine to the floor, he was unable to move without the hypnotists ok.. i also have another friend who uses a light trance to help people overcome their fears, it seems to work well on peple who have to give seminars or perform on stage.. anyone here ever been hypnotised?.

englishman.. bring on the dancing girls!

RunningMan

It is unwise for JW's to visit a hypnotist. The reason for this is that
at then end of the session, the hypnotist will typically snap his fingers,
and the subject will awaken. If a JW is present when this happens, he
may awaken from his slumber and realize that his beliefs were just a
dream.

Actually, around my area, hypnotists are strictly forbidden among the JW's.
They are certain that demon possesion is guaranteed if you visit one.