Can we understand the message of the Bible

by Bill Parker 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Bill Parker
    Bill Parker

    Reply To Question- Can we understand the message of the Bible?

    Joel Bear made the following comment to me: “As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses who bears his name, why not give a well thought out answer to the question.”

    The questions as far as I can determine are this: “Why is the Bible so ambiguous that so many interpretations are possible? Why doesn’t God simply speak clearly so that we can understand unequivocally the most important message ever supposedly delivered to humans? Why is there so much room for what Yadirf calls mistakes and misunderstandings? If the Bible is a message to all men, shouldn’t it be written on a level where even the simplest could understand it? Why instead do we have to have Bible Scholars to explain it to us?”

    In trying to answer these questions for Joel Bear I hope to also answer the questions for Ashitaka and Running Man.

    Isn’t it true that Jehovah has hidden His word from some among mankind? Recall what Jesus stated at Matthew 11:25. … “I thank you Father, LORD of heaven and earth {and I acknowledge openly and joyfully to your honor}, that you have hidden these things from the wise and clever and learned, and revealed them to babies {to the childish untaught and unskilled.” Then in Proverbs 2: 7 in harmony with that, are these words: “He hides away sound and godly wisdom and stores it for the righteous {those who are upright and in right standing with Him} … those who walk uprightly and in integrity”.

    Are we to conclude from that, that because an individual may have a great deal of worldly knowledge, and is wise in the ways of the world that he cannot gain an accurate understanding of the Bible? I do not believe that that is the case at all. One like this could be a very spiritual person and would not be deprived from gaining knowledge of Jehovah. It is only the one’s lacking spirituality, the one’s not “walking uprightly and in integrity” that would be deprived of that knowledge. Those that feel that because of their knowledge they are superior to everyone else. The knowledge of God Is “foolishness to them.” They have little or no spirituality. Those who have no interest in spiritual things are really not concerned with walking uprightly before God will never understand the knowledge of God. To them the Bible is a book that cannot be understood. They feel it is full of “mistakes and misunderstandings”. They do not believe that it is written on a level “where all mankind can understand it”.

    Joel Bear said: “If we are judged based on our reaction to the message, should we not be able to understand the message?”

    The bible is a book written for the benefit of all mankind. Paul made this clear at 1 Timothy 2: 4 where he said: … “Who wishes all men to be saved and {increasingly} to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the {divine truth}?”Added to that are the words of the Apostle John: “The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1: 29 {Romans 5:12; Romans 3: 23} Peter adds this: “The lord does not delay or is not tardy our slow about what He promises, according to some peoples conception of slowness, but He is longsuffering {extraordinarily patient} toward you, not desiring that any should perish but that ALL should turn to repentance.” The only ones who will not understand the message is those ones who are not spiritually minded. From them Jehovah has hidden the message until such time that they recognize their sinful condition, repent of that course, turn around and do works that befit repentance. When that occurs Jehovah will then impart His Holy Spirit to them. Then that spirit “will guide them into all of the truth.” But when there is no true repentance {and Jehovah is the one who decides whether it is true repentance or false} then there is no spirit supplied. Without that spirit is lacking the true knowledge cannot be gained, try as one might.

    Look at what 1 Corinthians 2: 14 has to say about this: “But the natural, non spiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the spirit of God, for they are folly {meaningless nonsense} to him; and he is incapable of knowing them {of progressively recognizing, understanding and becoming better acquainted with them} because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.” So where do we lay the blame for one’s lack of the knowledge of God in this case? Isn’t it because the one spoken of here is lacking in spirituality? Doesn’t the blame rest solely on this person or people, whoever they may be? Isn’t it true that the word’s of Jesus at Matthew 13:13 apply to those who really have no spirituality? He said: “This is the reason that I speak to them in parables; because having the power of seeing, they do not see; and having the power of hearing, they do not hear, nor do they grasp and understand. In them indeed is the process of fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah, which says: You shall indeed hear and hear but never grasp and understand; and you shall indeed look and look but never see and perceive.” {Matthew 13:13, 14} If one reads on in verse 15 it was a bad heart condition that blocked their understanding of what Jesus was teaching. We learn of this particular heart attitude in Proverbs 14: 6 “A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain {for his very attitude blinds and deafens him to it}.

    Look now at verse 15 of 1 Corinthians chapter 2. “But the spiritual man tries all things {he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things}; he can read the meaning of everything}”
    Proverbs 2: 10, 11. Tells us of these spiritual people, this: “For skillful and Godly wisdom shall enter into your heart and knowledge shall be pleasant to you. Discretion shall watch over you, understanding shall keep you.” As to these spiritual persons this same Proverb continues: “But knowledge is easy to him who {being teachable} understands.”

    From all of this we can see the Bible is impossible to understand only if we lack in spirituality. If our hearts are not right in God’s eyes. But for those among mankind who possess the right heart attitude and are spiritual persons, teachable people then “knowledge is an easy thing” for us to obtain. It is a very simple book to understand. Of these teachable people, these wise ones, the Proverb tells us: “The wise also will hear and increase in learning, and the person of understanding will acquire skill and attain to sound counsel {so that he may be able to steer his course rightly}” Proverbs 18: 15 adds this to that: “The mind of the prudent is ever getting knowledge and the ear of the wise is ever seeking {inquiring for and craving} knowledge.” For the spiritual man the Bible is a very simple book to understand. For those lacking spirituality it is a very difficult book to understand.

    But what about all of those Bible translations that allow for so many different interpretations? Why is there so much confusion created by them? One need only to look at the account in Genesis 2: 17 to discover why that is. There was perfect harmony up until they violated the command stated here. They had only the knowledge of good. When they ate of the tree Jehovah commanded them not to touch them then gained the knowledge of bad. Then all of the complexities started. They were misled by Satan. He now became the God of the World. The whole world then lay in the power of Satan. He had succeeded in blinding not only the minds of the pair in the garden but also the entire world of mankind. He has from that time until now misled “the entire inhabited earth”. 2 Corinthians 4: 4 Revelation 12: 9; 1 John 5:19. For that reason there is a confusion of Bible translations that are not in agreeance. That allows for one to conclude one thing and someone else another. All of them only keep individuals in a state of confusion. That only serves to show that Satan has blinded the Minds of these Bible translators. Since he himself is a god of confusion unlike Jehovah who is a God of order. Stan is the only one who doesn’t wish anyone to come to know Jehovah and gain abundant life since he himself will eventually lose his. He would have all of us lose ours too.

    The true spiritual man though can use any of these Bibles and still come to an accurate knowledge of truth. Once one is “granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of God” {Matthew 13: 10} who has had the “eyes of his heart enlightened” {Ephesians 1: 18} will eventually be able to “find the very knowledge of God”. Proverbs 2:5 that will depend though on how much effort is put forth to gain that knowledge.

    Do we gain it though from the Bible Scholars who are lying in Satan’s power? Do we need any professed so called self appointed “slave class’ to teach us the Bible? Who tell us if we do not do as they do and teach we will not inherit life? Who tell us that we should listen to them as though we were listening to the voice of God?” Run away from those.
    Who did Jesus say taught Him? In brief it was this: …“I say exactly what My Father has taught me.”{John 8:28} In John 14:24 Jesus tells us: … “The teaching that you hear and heed is not mine, but comes from the Father who sent me.”
    In John 6: 45 Jesus said: “It is written in the book of the prophets, and they shall all be taught of God {Jehovah} {have Him in person for their teacher}. Every one who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to me.” It is not any sinful man we receive our instruction from. It is Jehovah God who does the teaching through His active force. “And all your sons will be taught by Jehovah.” {Isaiah 54:13}

    In 1st John 2:20 we learn how this teaching is done. It reads: “But you have been anointed by the Holy One. You all know the truth; I do not write you because you do not know it because you do know it”. Then in verse 27 we read this: “The anointing of the Spirit which you received still remains in your hearts, and so you have no need that anyone should teach you. But just as that anointing of His teaches about everything and as it is true and no falsehood, and as it has taught you to do so, you must continue to live in union with Him.” Some would argue that this statement is directed at only those of the heavenly calling. That is definitely not true! Why? Look at Jeremiah 31: 33, 34 in part it states: … “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor or a man his brother, saying `Know the LORD` because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” They all had an anointing of Holy Spirit that is why they had ALL come to know Jehovah. They had all been taught by Jehovah. In order to do that they all would have had to understand the message of the Bible. If they didn’t they would never have gained the knowledge necessary to enable to come to know Jehovah.

    It now becomes obvious that if we today do not understand the Bible we are lacking in spirituality. That can be gained by humble heartfelt prayer of repentance to Jehovah. We must be conscious of our sinful condition. We must acknowledge that openly to Jehovah. We must accept the fact that only by Jehovah applying the merit of the precious blood of His dear Son on our behalf can we receive the forgiveness necessary to gaining the free gift of the spirit. Then the anointing takes place. Then Jehovah begins teaching us through the effort we now put forth to gain the knowledge of God. Then the Bible becomes a simple Book to understand. We do not trust in any man to teach us the Bible. Men are prone to lying; Jehovah is the God who cannot lie. Everyone taught by Him will be exactly like His Son who taught exactly as Jehovah had taught Him. Paul one of the one’s taught by the master could say: “Become imitators of me just as I am of Christ.” In doing that we become “imitators of God as beloved children”… {1 Corinthians 11: 1, 2 Ephesians 5: 1} When we are really doing that we become qualified to dispense “spiritual food at the proper time” to those who are thirsting for knowledge of Jehovah. We are all that “faithful Slave” mentioned in Matthew 24: 45-47

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    I was going to respond to this post, but there were simply tooo many contradictions in it. Just two examples: first he says the smart ones can't understand it, then he says they can. Then he says you have to be spiritual to understand it, as if bible idolaters are the only spiritualists on the earth. *ugh!*

    SS

  • metatron
    metatron

    Amen to that, Saint.

    Just imagine that the Bible can only be understood by
    "spiritual" men - whatever the heck that means exactly.

    So, wicked types, being the opposite of "spiritual",
    don't stand a chance. Apparently, the Bible's message
    doesn't appeal to logic - just this spookly, nebulous,
    "spiritual" condition. Repentance would be impossible
    since such ones aren't "spiritual" and the Bible looks
    like BS. By separating the Bible from logic, it removes
    any base of reason that could support its message as
    true.

    round and round we go

    metatron

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    I don't know what quote you're referencing, Billy, but I will venture a serious answer since you posted seriously.

    I assume the 'wise and clever' refer to those who are shrewd. My response is, if it can be proved, then it can be loved.

    You said those who are "wise and clever' are likely to be egotistical("Those that feel that because of their knowledge they are superior to everyone else"). I am neither wise nor clever, nor knowledgeable. I am a man in search of answers. Not pre-made answers from a publication, but from a search of my heart and mind.

    "The only ones who will not understand the message are those ones who are not spiritually minded."-Well, I know you'll differ with me on this, but the WTBTS has frequently misunderstood the message of the bible, which is summed up in the two commandments Jesus gave us. When I was a witness, I noticed a concern more for the beaurocracy of it all, rather than a spirit of brotherhood and Godly love.

    I could post more, but I'm tired.

    I understand your post, but most certainly do not agree with it.

    You are insinuating that doubt is synonymous with evil. It is not. You are saying that a non-spiritual man cannot discern the bible.

    People can. The words are universally understood. We can pine after faith, but words stay. The problem of facts holding up the words is my cause of doubt.

    As for the 'bible scholars who are lying in Satan's power', then sir, why does the WTBTS use the ones who support the WTBTS theories in their publications, and denounce the whole of academic bible research as 'unspiritual' when they don't agree?

    Sorry, Billy, I'm not feeling sad here. My decisions weren't made because I smoked, or did drugs, or fornicated. I left-

    It was a question of people.

    ashi

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    Reply To Question- Can we understand the message of the Bible?
    Joel Bear made the following comment to me: “As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses who bears his name, why not give a well thought out answer to the question.”

    Joelbear says:

    I was referring to NYT not you

    The questions as far as I can determine are this: “Why is the Bible so ambiguous that so many interpretations are possible? Why doesn’t God simply speak clearly so that we can understand unequivocally the most important message ever supposedly delivered to humans? Why is there so much room for what Yadirf calls mistakes and misunderstandings? If the Bible is a message to all men, shouldn’t it be written on a level where even the simplest could understand it? Why instead do we have to have Bible Scholars to explain it to us?”

    Joelbear says:

    Yup, those are the pertinent questions here.

    Isn’t it true that Jehovah has hidden His word from some among mankind? Recall what Jesus stated at Matthew 11:25. … “I thank you Father, LORD of heaven and earth {and I acknowledge openly and joyfully to your honor}, that you have hidden these things from the wise and clever and learned, and revealed them to babies {to the childish untaught and unskilled.” Then in Proverbs 2: 7 in harmony with that, are these words: “He hides away sound and godly wisdom and stores it for the righteous {those who are upright and in right standing with Him} … those who walk uprightly and in integrity”.

    Joelbear says:

    The question was not whether he hides it but why he hides it. If it was clearly stated, wouldn't it be more likely to cultivate integrity in people?

    Are we to conclude from that, that because an individual may have a great deal of worldly knowledge, and is wise in the ways of the world that he cannot gain an accurate understanding of the Bible? I do not believe that that is the case at all. One like this could be a very spiritual person and would not be deprived from gaining knowledge of Jehovah. It is only the one’s lacking spirituality, the one’s not “walking uprightly and in integrity” that would be deprived of that knowledge. Those that feel that because of their knowledge they are superior to everyone else. The knowledge of God Is “foolishness to them.” They have little or no spirituality. Those who have no interest in spiritual things are really not concerned with walking uprightly before God will never understand the knowledge of God. To them the Bible is a book that cannot be understood. They feel it is full of “mistakes and misunderstandings”. They do not believe that it is written on a level “where all mankind can understand it”.

    Joelbear says:

    There are spiritual people who do good and live a life of integrity who have totally different concept of who god is and what the truth is. These people are scattered amongst 1000s of Christian sects all with different understandings of what the bible actually says.

    The bible is a book written for the benefit of all mankind. Paul made this clear at 1 Timothy 2: 4 where he said: … “Who wishes all men to be saved and {increasingly} to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the {divine truth}?”Added to that are the words of the Apostle John: “The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1: 29 {Romans 5:12; Romans 3: 23} Peter adds this: “The lord does not delay or is not tardy our slow about what He promises, according to some peoples conception of slowness, but He is longsuffering {extraordinarily patient} toward you, not desiring that any should perish but that ALL should turn to repentance.” The only ones who will not understand the message is those ones who are not spiritually minded. From them Jehovah has hidden the message until such time that they recognize their sinful condition, repent of that course, turn around and do works that befit repentance. When that occurs Jehovah will then impart His Holy Spirit to them. Then that spirit “will guide them into all of the truth.” But when there is no true repentance {and Jehovah is the one who decides whether it is true repentance or false} then there is no spirit supplied. Without that spirit is lacking the true knowledge cannot be gained, try as one might.

    Joelbear says:

    Same point as above. There are people of all religions that live a clean life and do good to others, yet their interpretation of the Bible differs greatly from each other.

    From all of this we can see the Bible is impossible to understand only if we lack in spirituality. If our hearts are not right in God’s eyes. But for those among mankind who possess the right heart attitude and are spiritual persons, teachable people then “knowledge is an easy thing” for us to obtain. It is a very simple book to understand. Of these teachable people, these wise ones, the Proverb tells us: “The wise also will hear and increase in learning, and the person of understanding will acquire skill and attain to sound counsel {so that he may be able to steer his course rightly}” Proverbs 18: 15 adds this to that: “The mind of the prudent is ever getting knowledge and the ear of the wise is ever seeking {inquiring for and craving} knowledge.” For the spiritual man the Bible is a very simple book to understand. For those lacking spirituality it is a very difficult book to understand.

    Joelbear:

    Again, if this is true, then there is no need for Bible scholars since all "spiritual" people would automatically understand what the Bible says.

    But what about all of those Bible translations that allow for so many different interpretations? Why is there so much confusion created by them? One need only to look at the account in Genesis 2: 17 to discover why that is. There was perfect harmony up until they violated the command stated here. They had only the knowledge of good. When they ate of the tree Jehovah commanded them not to touch them then gained the knowledge of bad. Then all of the complexities started. They were misled by Satan. He now became the God of the World. The whole world then lay in the power of Satan. He had succeeded in blinding not only the minds of the pair in the garden but also the entire world of mankind. He has from that time until now misled “the entire inhabited earth”. 2 Corinthians 4: 4 Revelation 12: 9; 1 John 5:19. For that reason there is a confusion of Bible translations that are not in agreeance. That allows for one to conclude one thing and someone else another. All of them only keep individuals in a state of confusion. That only serves to show that Satan has blinded the Minds of these Bible translators. Since he himself is a god of confusion unlike Jehovah who is a God of order. Stan is the only one who doesn’t wish anyone to come to know Jehovah and gain abundant life since he himself will eventually lose his. He would have all of us lose ours too.

    Joelbear asks:

    Then how do we know that the Bible itself isn't just as garbled and confused by this effect. If God would allow his Word to man to be jumbled through mistranslation, he would just as probably have allowed the actually words and meaning to become jumbled.

  • dhook
    dhook

    Heavy and long... but, strangely enough, clear to my mind. I guess the person that understands the Scriptures fully (that's not going to happen in this system, I'm certain)is blessed beyond belief. But we all know that there are things that have not been revealed at this time but are "yet for the appointed time." However, if what Peter says at 2 Pet. 1:20+21 is true, that the Scriptures were written by men borne along by holy spirit, I doubt if it's wise to condemn the whole book on account of possible errors in translations. But scoffers were also a part of the sign of our times.

    Keep up the good work, Bill... you're trying to clear up the fog and that's not a bad thing.
    dhook

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    So, God's ways are higher than ours, so how can we puny mortals expect
    to understand his lofty thoughts? Well, if we cannot understand his words
    without being blessed, then why write them at all? Why not just bless us?

    And, if God bestows understanding on some, but not on others, then understanding
    has nothing to do with the Bible at all, but rather, on God's favors. Again, why
    bother writing it?

    The purpose of writing is to communicate thoughts to a reader. If the book is not
    written at an appropriate level for the reader, then it is a faulty communication. A
    perfect God should not make such an elementary communication error.

    The Bible is actually written much like a horoscope. It is vague and feely, and can
    be interpreted after the fact in just about any way that you want.

  • SC
    SC

    Running Man,
    Jehovah has written the Bible to those that will discern His way of life. He expects us to obey his laws but who will abide by those ways without some way of knowing what comes with obeying and following His ways? He has granted us life and what comes with it and the future of our life is what we will get as a gift from Jehovah.

    SC

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    Well, SC, that wasn't particularly coherent, but here goes.

    If life, and all that stuff is a gift, why do we have to obey him to get it? If we have to
    act a certain way to get the gift, then it really isn't a gift freely given, it is earned payment
    for our behavior.

    As far as discerning his ways from the Bible, I don't have a problem with that. My
    objection is that the Bible is a pretty poor piece of communication - not what you
    would expect from the almighty of the universe. If he can do anything, why can't he
    write a clear piece of prose?

  • SC
    SC

    Okay, Running Man, pretend that you are God, Jehovah, and you created the earth for mankind. What would you do to have your creation obey you for your wonderful gift of life and have them acknowledge you as creator? What would you do if your spiritual creation has acted like they could do whatever they wanted and didn't care what you thought of their actions?

    I don't feel that the Bible is that hard to comprehend. Jehovah is expecting us to live a certain way. Is that too hard to understand?

    SC

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