Posts by Splash

25

Addressing The False Claim That Jehovah's Witnesses Do Not Think "Independently"

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

addressing the false claim that jehovah's witnesses do not think "independently.. .

http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com/2013/02/addressing-false-claim-that-jehovahs.html#.

from a wt apologist.. .

Splash

The WT triumphs here since they say both things.

If you are doing your own research/thinking/reasoning then the elders can quote WT articles at you to make you stop.

If you are defending the WT to outsiders, you can quote WT articles to show we are encouraged to think independently.

It's a win-win. Put both views into writing and choose when to use each one.

Of course the WT apologist in the link does not mention that actually, if you continue to 'reason independently' then you will definitely be cast outside the congregation as an opposer.

Posted before, but relevant:

INDEPENDENT THINKING

Is Bad - w52 8/15 p. 501 Individual Bible study, certainly! Independent Bible study, beware!

Is Good - w57 8/1 p.469 par.7 "Moreover, people today are developing an aversion to thinking. Their thinking must be channelled for them, ready-made by propagandists. This suits Satan’s purpose."

Is Good - w58 8/1 p.460 "Irish people do very little independent thinking. They are victims of the clergy and fear"

Is Bad - w60 2/15 p.106 par.6 "it follows that one should reject the goal of independent thinking"

Is Good - w72 3/15 P.170 par.7 "independent thinking ... is why you are capable of exercising the fine qualities of love and loyalty, of devotion and integrity. That is why you are also capable of understanding what God has revealed in his Word "

Is Bad - w77 10/1 p.605 "Adam’s selfish thinking and action distorted his way. He set out his own independent course, becoming an enemy of God, and brought his own way and that of his family “to ruin.” Yes, with sin and imperfection ruling, and with each going his independent way, no one knows what may befall him,"

Is Good - Awake! 78 8/22 p.4 " Proverbs 14:15 states: “A simple man believes every word he hears; a clever man understands the need for proof.” (The New English Bible) So each individual must choose what he will feed his mind. Whatever you read or watch or listen to, test whether it is propaganda or whether it is the truth. Will you let others think for you, or will you do your own thinking? Do your own, and “thinking ability itself will keep guard over you.”"

Is Bad - w79 2/15 p.20 par.18 " Jehovah’s people need to be stable, full-grown Christians. Their position must be steadfast, not shifting quickly because of independent thinking "

Is Good - Awake! 80 1/8 p.13 " The person most easily brainwashed is the “normal,” average individual. Such a one is already conditioned to accept opinions of others rather than to form strong convictions of his own. On the other hand, those hardest to brainwash are ones with unconventional ideas and strong convictions and who are not afraid of what others think."

Is Bad - w83 p.27 section heading " Fight Against Independent Thinking " par.22 says it's "demonic"

Is Good - KM 3/95 p.6 par.17 "it is highly valuable to learn how to think. The Bible commends thinking ability and practical wisdom. (Prov. 1:4; 3:21) Learning how to think and retain information enables you to acquire knowledge and skills that will be useful to you and to Jehovah’s worldwide organization. "

Is Bad - w98 5/15 p.26 "Perhaps we are overly sensitive. We may be nursing a grievance, or we may be placing too much emphasis on independence. Thus, our Christian progress may be limited."

Is Good - Awake! 99 1/8 p.11 "The magazine UNESCO Courier suggests that instead of fostering rejection of religious movements, “education for tolerance should aim at countering influences that lead to fear and exclusion of others, and should help young people to develop capacities for independent judgement, critical thinking and ethical reasoning.”"

Is Bad - w06 7/15 P.22 Par.14 "Pride may play a role, and some fall into the trap of independent thinking"

- It seems for the most part, the Watchtower doesn't like independent thinking whereas the Awake! does !

Splash

46

The huge impact the JWs have out in their door knocking --- May 15, 2013

by RayPublisher in

the may 15, 2013 washtowel has a cute little piece of artwork about what an impact they make out in serve-us.

i thought some captions might help make it clearer!.

.

Splash

Sandwich boards may have had their day, but the trolleys are coming.

Discussion among the BoE in my cong (in the south UK) is all about these new trolleys.

Splash.

80

I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?

by booker-t in

i have been hearing and reading on websites about some "new light" jws are saying concerning the faithful and discreet slave class.

it sounds like the same information they have been saying for years.

i was always taught the faithful and discreet slave class is the annoited governing body members dispensing food at the proper time for the non annoited jws.

Splash

@yadda yadda 2

The Evil slave? Yes, that's us lot here lol !!!

*** w10 7/15 p. 6 par. 16 What Jehovah’s Day Will Reveal ***

Indeed, it is the “evil slave” who concludes that the Master is delaying. (Matt. 24:48) That evil slave is part of a group described at 2 Peter 3:3, 4. “In the last days,” wrote Peter, “there will come ridiculers” who, “according to their own desires,” mock those who obediently keep Jehovah’s day close in mind. Yes, rather than focus on Kingdom interests, such ridiculers focus on themselves and on their own selfish desires. Let us never develop such a disobedient and dangerous frame of mind!

Splash

42

JWgift.org - the UK's Watchtower-sponsored website that "should not be seen as the soliciting of funds in any way"...

by cedars in

...even though it has a massive button on the home page saying "make a donation.".

https://www.jwgift.org/welcome.aspx.

cedars.

Splash

"This facility has been provided solely for the convenience of those who asked for this service and desire to support our work by these means."

Yes, it was asked for by the GB.

Splash

20

Parents - How can I tell them what I have learnt and hope they leave too.

by free and happy in

jw
friends

my husband and i and our children having been left the jws for 5 years now, for me it was how we were treated, the lies elders told about us and the blood issue that really opened my eyes and while all this was happening, my parents watched, supported and even sympathised with us,they said they understood our decision and even though it sadden them we were leaving, they understood.

they have never shunned us and we have a really good relationship with them.. what i don't understand is how they can still stay and play happy families with the people who caused us so much pain and anxiety, without the transfusion my eldest had, she would be dead, it truely was a life saver, why did they not question the religion that was quite happy to let her die for it.. i think the problem for me is that when i was at home, we never really talked, any problems were just glossed over , in fact i don't think i have ever had an indepth jw talk with my parents about how i felt about being a witness which makes it so hard to tell them what i've learnt now, i haven't a clue where to start.. for my husband it seemed quite easy for him to have discussions with his mum and step dad as he never had the same closeness that i had with my parents when growing up even though we were raised in witness families, but then it dawned on me that we never really spoke indepth about anything much so how do i start now?.

so i'm asking for any advice anyone can give, if you have any suggestions i would love to hear from you..

Splash

@Black Sheep

Thanks for those Awake! 1961 references.

I've extracted them here for anyone who's interested

Awake! 1961 Feb 22 p. 7

That now-operating kingdom in heaven will, within the twentieth century, cleanse the entire earth of wickedness... Can you not see that the twentieth century is the century indicated by the prophetic language of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3?

Awake! 1961 Feb 22 p. 8

...is it not only logical that whatever else is recorded in these above-mentioned Bible chapters must also come upon the twentieth century? ... Revelation 16:16 calls it the "war of the great day of God the Al mighty," Armageddon. This war will come in the twentieth century . ...Now is the time to heed Bible prophecy concerning the twentieth cen tury and live forever in the sunshine of God's new world.

Splash

30

Elders- Have any of You faded Because of participating in a JC where the Arguments from the accused made sense to you?

by truthlover in

i know the question is long, but it has occured to me that there are a lot of newbies here but before that, many ex elders, some co and do's that are no longer jw's.... did the publishers comments at a jc about the misconceptions,dates, and lack of holy spirit, etc.

make sense to you and did you start thinking about the failed prophecies, fudging the "new light" etc.

which caused you to slowly fade away.. .

Splash

The first JC I sat on, I was newly appointed and barely 27 years old.

A young sister who had not attended in years wanted to come back, but needed to clear her conscience. She faded when a teenager, met a guy and moved in together. Since then they got married - he was never a JW.

I remember the way the elders asked intimate questions - not demanding all the details, but asking when, how often, why now etc.

I actually felt they were being sensitive while trying to understand all of the issues, after all this sister approached the elders, not the other way around.

What I found hardest is that I am a naturally compassionate person. Even now I speak to DF'd ones who come back to the KHall, but this sister was very distressed. She was crying, sad, embarrassed, remorseful, frightened.

Then she was sent out of the room and the other two elders looked at me and asked "what do you think?"

The enormity of that question still resonates with me.

They were asking me what should we do with this young girls life.

Being brought up a JW I had no life experience, no understanding of these situations, and no training. I realised I couldn't pass judgement on her.

We finally agreed that she would not be DF'd, but some restrictions would be in order while she gets back into the congregation.

We never saw her again.

I wish I had, just so I could tell her "sorry".

Splash.

7

Do you ever wonder...

by OneDayillBeFree in

if there are any brothers or sisters in your kingdom hall that are mentally awake to ttatt?.

do you ever wonder if some of the posters here (who are still in) are in your hall?

studies, un-baptized publishers, pioneers, ministerial servants, elders?

Splash

There are some waking up in my KHall.

It's a very slow process but I'm hearing comments now from elders and pioneers (among others) which I would never have heard a few years ago.

Splash

47

The Infamous May 15th 1984 Watchtower "1914: The Generation That Will Not Pass Away"

by PublishingCult in

.

i do not know how the blogger who posted this infamous wt cover (5/15/84) got all the names of those who posed for this magazine cover, or whether the names are even correct, but if he got it right, man, what a provocative statement.. .

Splash

Eventually running out of time altogether, and despite saying:

WTOctober 15, 1988page 4 "The Sign — Are You Heeding It?" "Might it be, though, that the sign could occur over the span of many human generations? No.The sign is to occur during one particular generation. The same generation that witnessed the beginning of the sign will also witness its climax"

They did a 180 degree change to the latest version:

WT April 15, 2010, "Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose". para 13 - 14 "How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”?He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.

So it now doesn't even matter if you didn't see the events of 1914, so long as your life overlaps with someone who did.

This is clearly what Jesus meant when he said

(Mt 24:34, 35) . . .Truly I say to YOU that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.

Splash.

23

WT Society, Travel agency? Latest money making scheme?

by dropoffyourkeylee in

jw
friends

recently there was quite a buzz at the local hall of people applying to be a specially approved candidate to attend an international convention overseas.

one person i knew applied to go to the assembly next year in south africa.

she was elated to find she and her daughter-in-law were accepted for the south africa site.

Splash

Thanks Blondie, I'd never seen these before.

I like that the London tour includes a tour around the British Museum.

It's free to get into there

Splash

47

The Infamous May 15th 1984 Watchtower "1914: The Generation That Will Not Pass Away"

by PublishingCult in

.

i do not know how the blogger who posted this infamous wt cover (5/15/84) got all the names of those who posed for this magazine cover, or whether the names are even correct, but if he got it right, man, what a provocative statement.. .

Splash

@ ScottTerry - When I was growing up as a JW in the 70's, the official word, as I remember it, is that the "generation of 1914" referred to people who were not only alive in 1914 but were also old enough to understand its significance.

That was the case, but as time moved onwards, they kept dropping the qualifying age for That Generation:

Awake! October 8 1968, page 13

“Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the last days began. Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914.”

WT October 15 1980, page 31

“It is the generation of people who saw the catastrophic events that broke forth in connection with World War I from 1914 onward ... If you assume that 10 is the age at which an event creates a lasting impression... “

WT October 1 1978, page 31

“Thus, when it comes to the application in our time, the ‘generation’ logically would not apply to babies born during World War I.”

WT May 15 1984, page 5

“If Jesus used „generation ? in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. ... Some of them will „by no means pass away until all thin gs occur ? .”

Awake! April 8 1988, page 14

“Most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it. ... Jesus ? words will come true, „this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened ? .”

Splash