Royal Commission Live Hearing Now

by LostinJapan in

wednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.

case study 29, july 2015, sydney.

Splash

IS IT OK TO BE DECEPTIVE?

YES - Watchtower Oct 1, 1954, par 21, 25
"No harm is practiced by withholding incriminating information from one who is not entitled to know."

YES - Watchtower May 1, 1957 Page 285 - 286.
"So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth."

YES - Watchtower June 1, 1960, pages 351-352
"We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive."

YES - Insight On The Scriptures, Volume 2, 1988 pages 244-245.
"While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it"

YES - w07 2/1 p. 6 Why Be Truthful?
So while Jesus did not utter an untruth, he gave them an incomplete answer in order to limit the possible harm they could do to him or to his followers.

Theocratic warfare has long been a feature of the WT's dealings with worldly authorities.

8

Will Vincent Toole speak the truth to the Royal commission?

by Splash in

vincent toole has a history of stating blatant untruths in order to protect the wt.. he is recorded as once saying that shunning was "a myth".. i wonder how linguistically pedantic will he get, and how much double-speak will he employ in order to defend the current wt policies.

my guess is he will try to twist the senior counsel in knots with wordy responses, in the hope they will simply run out of time.. if this fails then i'm expecting some howlers of deception..

Splash

Vincent Toole has a history of stating blatant untruths in order to protect the WT.

He is recorded as once saying that shunning was "a myth".

I wonder how linguistically pedantic will he get, and how much double-speak will he employ in order to defend the current WT policies. My guess is he will try to twist the Senior Counsel in knots with wordy responses, in the hope they will simply run out of time.

If this fails then I'm expecting some howlers of deception.

38

[Day 6 - 4/8]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

unfortunately, part 1 will not be available until later, but i thought i give you the other parts anyway .

day six of the proceedings:.

part 2 has been uploaded and part 3,4 and (5?

Splash

Reading what is written, "we" means any one of us and the context does not describe any exceptions.

If "we" are abused and therefore come to know that the abuser has committed a wrongdoing, "we" are obliged to report it.

Look at the earlier sentence: "when serious sin has been committed, those Scripturally obligated to handle the matter—the elders in the congregation—should be informed".

Again, there is no distinction as to whether the serious sin was committed against us personally or against a third party. If we know something we have to tell the elders.

Justice McClellan understands this point and Rodney Spinks tries to muddy the waters with deception.

35

Has the WT ever said it's okay to steak rare?

by neverendingjourney in

i'm revisiting an old topic here, but this was a subject of much confusion for me when i was still a witness.

i went to a spanish congregation in the u.s. and it seemed to be taken for granted by most that you needed to cook beef thoroughly to "get rid" of the blood.

i was surprised when i learned that folks in the english speaking hall would order a steak medium-rare and think nothing of it.. it wasn't until after i left the witnesses that it started to occur to me that if the red fluid that was present when you'd cut the beef was blood, cooking it thoroughly wouldn't get rid of it, it'd just cook it and transform it into another color.

Splash

Half banana R u a jw then Splash?

Officially, yes.

Irrespective of my status, it's useful to understand the issues and teachings accurately, and unhelpful to misunderstand them.

38

[Day 6 - 4/8]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

unfortunately, part 1 will not be available until later, but i thought i give you the other parts anyway .

day six of the proceedings:.

part 2 has been uploaded and part 3,4 and (5?

Splash

Day 6 Part 3. 54:15

Justice McClellan: "Your adherents are required to bring their allegations to the church, aren't they?"

Rodney Spinks: "...I don't see published anywhere and I know to be the case that we don't demand or scripturally enforce a victim of rape, a victim of child abuse, it's actually a misapplication. There's been a few scriptures misapplied but that's a clear misapplication of Leviticus 5:1... We don't require a victim to come forward if they choose not to."

*** w12 2/15 p. 22 par. 15 Preserve the Positive Spirit of the Congregation ***
"Even so, when serious sin has been committed, those Scripturally obligated to handle the matter—the elders in the congregation—should be informed. (Read Leviticus 5:1.)
So if we know that a brother or a sister has fallen into such wrongdoing, we should encourage that one to approach the elders and seek their help. (Jas. 5:13-15) If he or she does not do so within a reasonable period of time, though, we should report the wrongdoing."

Rodney Spinks would like what he says to be true, but this recent WT proves he is misleading the Royal Commission as to what is actually true.

118

Governing Body member is in Australia right now!

by Anonymous1 in

sorry i have to remain completely anonymous about this but you will see why.

i have first hand knowledge that geoffrey jackson of the governing body is staying with his parents in toowoomba, queensland for the next few weeks.

he has already been in australia for a couple of weeks.

Splash

What kind of a leader is G Jackson, that he won't come and defend his faith?

If a new Bible book was being written about this, he would be an example of cowardice and lack of faith. Someone who said "There they are, send them!"

The constant examples in the WT of being bold, taking a stand, relying on Jehovah. Children being told to stand up for their faith at school. JW's told to go to prison to defend their faith, or to carry on preaching in defiance of any ban.

The GB have a different set of rules to those they rule over, and both Gerrit Loesch and Geoffrey Jackson have now shown their true colours.

(Luke 12:11, 12) "When they bring you in before public assemblies, government officials, and authorities, do not become anxious about how or what you will speak in defense or what you will say, for the holy spirit will teach you in that very hour the things you should say.”

(Luke 21:12-15) "You will be brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name. It will result in your giving a witness. Therefore, resolve in your hearts not to rehearse beforehand how to make your defense, for I will give you words and wisdom that all your opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute."

(2 Timothy 2:15) "Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright."

(2 Timothy 4:1, 2) "I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom: Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times"

35

Has the WT ever said it's okay to steak rare?

by neverendingjourney in

i'm revisiting an old topic here, but this was a subject of much confusion for me when i was still a witness.

i went to a spanish congregation in the u.s. and it seemed to be taken for granted by most that you needed to cook beef thoroughly to "get rid" of the blood.

i was surprised when i learned that folks in the english speaking hall would order a steak medium-rare and think nothing of it.. it wasn't until after i left the witnesses that it started to occur to me that if the red fluid that was present when you'd cut the beef was blood, cooking it thoroughly wouldn't get rid of it, it'd just cook it and transform it into another color.

Splash

It's not blood that needs to be bled, but 'life blood'.

You can bleed an animal all you like but you'll never get rid of every red blood cell.

Eating meat means you will eat some blood, but that's ok so long as the animal was bled first in a symbolic gesture to acknowledge that God is the life giver.

16

Interesting development

by InquiryMan in

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/08/04/jehovahs-witnesses-change-abuse-rules.

.

jws in australia agrees to change procedures in regards to reporting abuse..

Splash

The changes I want to see are
1. The removal of the 2 witness rule
2. The releasing of names of known abusers
3. No reappointment of abusers to positions of authority
4. Mandatory police checks for anyone being appointed
5. A female victim or youngster not having to face three men
6. A victim not having to face their abuser
7. Reporting to authorities as soon as an allegation is made
8. A procedure of professional help and compensation for victims, not pursuing victims through the courts
9. JC elders being replaced by, or led by, a trained and qualified abuse investigator
10. JC elders being people who do not know the abuser, let alone are their friends

And to reinforce this I would like to see a retrospective prosecution of all those who in some way broke the law by not reporting a crime, and retrospective compensation payments to all victims.

I wish to see the GB take the lead in acknowledging this problem with a video on their website apologising for minimising it and lying about it.
I don't want it to be spun into 'new light' but a candid admission that they were wrong, and they are sorry.

Only when the current barbaric, harmful and inadequate practices are completely overhauled, will this menace start to come under control and JW's begin to look like caring Christians. Only when the JW 'persecution' mindset changes so that victims are not viewed as money grabbing apostates, will a little bit of humanity return to the congregations.

28

[Day 5 - 3/8]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

so, i am back at it.

i give you day 5 of the royal commissions proceedings:.

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2,3 and 4 will soon be available.. part 1:.

Splash

Part 2, 10:30-11:00. Incredible.

The abuser was disfellowshipped for immorality with another woman, but was not reinstated later on because the elders had said he should return to the family home.

The elders actually recommended that the abuser should go back to live with his two young daughters if he was to be reinstated!

Angus "That would not have been a safe situation, would it."
De Rooy "That sounds correct."

18

Horley Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses UK (disbanded)

by konceptual99 in

does anyone in the uk know any details about the above congregation?

it seems it was disbanded by the co specifically because of "lack of love" and members reassigned to other congregations in the reigate and crawley areas.. i've checked the charities commission web site and the charity was removed in may 2012.. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/showcharity/registerofcharities/removedcharitymain.aspx?registeredcharitynumber=1066699&subsidiarynumber=0.

the cobe was a guy called rossiter (sp?

Splash

If it was attached to the assembly hall, what happened to that assembly hall?

Splash

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IS IT OK TO BE DECEPTIVE?