Sorry Splash but your emphasis on the number of manuscripts is very misleading.
It's not my emphasis and not my belief.
To debate a JW you have only one choice - use their own literature.
Posts by Splash
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13My strongest reason not to take anything especially in the new testament serious is found in JW grey bible
by Consciousguy inguys i need a rebuttal in this.
cos this is what i plan to tell the elders when they come to me which i find inevitable.
due to general concession and confirmation from jw bible on page 1736. all the available christian greek scriptures manuscript today doesn't contain yhwh.
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Splash
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My strongest reason not to take anything especially in the new testament serious is found in JW grey bible
by Consciousguy inguys i need a rebuttal in this.
cos this is what i plan to tell the elders when they come to me which i find inevitable.
due to general concession and confirmation from jw bible on page 1736. all the available christian greek scriptures manuscript today doesn't contain yhwh.
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Splash
The Borg argued that we don't have the originals manuscript and the available ones are written at least two centuries after the event, and that they have been manipulated.
If we do not have the original manuscripts, how do we know that later ones were manipulated?
This is a baseless claim with no evidence. It simply suits them to believe this.
If God's name is so important, why did God have it disappear both in print and audibly - it was never spoken.*** si p. 305 par. 26 Study Number 4—The Bible and Its Canon ***
Faith in the almighty God, who is the Inspirer and Preserver of his Word, makes us confident that he is the one who has guided the gathering together of its various parts.*** si p. 11 par. 28 “All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial” ***
That which has been recorded and preserved as the Holy Scriptures is not to be tampered with. (Deut. 4:1, 2; Rev. 22:18, 19)*** si pp. 316-317 par. 11 Study Number 6—The Christian Greek Text of the Holy Scriptures ***
A Reservoir of Over 13,000 Manuscripts.
A tremendous fund of manuscript copies of all 27 [NT] canonical books is available today. ... According to one calculation, there are over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek. In addition, there are over 8,000 manuscripts in various other languages—a total exceeding 13,000 manuscripts all together. Dating from the 2nd century C.E. to the 16th century C.E., they all help in determining the true, original text. The oldest of these many manuscripts is the papyrus fragment of the Gospel of John in the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England, known by the number P52, which is dated to the first half of the second century, possibly about 125 C.E. Thus, this copy was written only a quarter of a century or so after the original. -
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I need quotes from watctower demonizing the internet, and gadgets e.g smart phones, tablets etc
by joe134cd ini need wt quotes where wt goes fully out and: .
demonizes the internet, .
witnesses preaching on the internet.
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Splash
SHOULD WE READ THE BIBLE ONLINE?
NO - w02 6/15 p. 15 Follow the Royal Pattern [Box on page 15] "In Our Hands"
"If we want . . . a concordance to the Bible, we can find no better medium than the Internet. But if we want to read the Bible, to study it, think about it, reflect upon it, we should have it in our hands, for that is the only way of getting it into our minds and our hearts."—Gertrude Himmelfarb, distinguished professor emeritus, City University, New York.
YES - jl (2012) What Is God's Will?
Learn about us online. Visit the official Web site of Jehovah's Witnesses at www.jw.org. There you can read the Bible online and view or print out many of our publications in over 400 languages.
USING ELECTRONIC TABLETS
RULING THAT THEY CAN'T BE USED ON THE PLATFORM - Nov 8, 2011 BOE letter:
However, at this time, an electronic tablet or other similar device should not be used on the platform, such as for reading the paragraphs at the Watchtower Study, conducting a meeting, or giving a talk of any kind.
In addition to the possibility of a technical problem occurring, it is felt that using an electronic tablet from the platform could prompt others to feel that they too should invest in such a device. Additionally, since many brothers cannot afford such a device, using one prominently from the stage could, in effect, create "class distinctions" or appear to be a "showy display of one's means of life."
THEY CAN BE USED ON THE PLATFORM AND THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY RULES - Oct 12, 2013 BOE letter:
Electronic tablets have become increasingly common in many parts of the world. So the Governing Body has decided that the use of such devices from the platform at our theocratic events should be left to the individual discretion of each program participant. This is not something for which elders would need to establish a rule.
DON'T SELL YOUR KIDNEY TO GET ONE - w13 1/15 p. 17 par. 3 Keep Drawing Close to Jehovah
We can, however, also become obsessed with computer technology. Marketers cleverly convince people that they must have the latest products. One young man so passionately desired a particular tablet computer that he secretly sold one of his kidneys to buy it. What a shortsighted sacrifice!
START PUSHING THEIR USE - g 4/13 p. 16 Get to Our Online Content Quickly!
Beginning with this issue, Awake! will feature QR (quick response) codes. What are they? Special matrix codes that will give you easy access to our Web site. All you need is a tablet that has a camera and Internet access or a smartphone.
DON'T FEEL PRESSURED TO BUY ONE - w2014 8/15 pp3-5:-
"However, you can remain spiritually strong whether you have access to our Web site or not. The slave has worked hard to provide enough printed material to keep each domestic spiritually well-fed. Therefore, you should not feel obligated to buy a device just to access jw.org. Some may make private arrangements to print a limited amount of material published on our Web site and give it personally to those who do not have Internet access, but congregations are not required to do this."
USE ONE ON THE MINISTRY AND AT THE MEETINGS - 2016 May 2-8 Christian Life and Ministry
'APPLY YOURSELF TO THE MINISTRY'
Prepare This Month's Presentations: Discussion. Play each sample presentation video, and then discuss the highlights. Briefly refer to "Ways to Use JW Library" when discussing the use of a mobile device. Remind the audience to report each month the number of times they showed a video in the ministry. Encourage publishers to build their own presentation.'LIVING AS CHRISTIANS'
"Are You Using JW Library?": (15 min.) Begin with a five-minute discussion of the article. Then play and briefly discuss the video. Start Using "JW Library." Afterward, do the same with the videos "Download and Manage Publications" and "Customize the Reading Experience". Encourage all who can to install the JW Library app and download publications to their mobile device before the part "Ways to Use JW Library" is discussed during the week of May 16. -
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Request For Awake 1946 3/27 page 16 - Explanation of 1Tim 6:15-16
by Bobcat ini am endeavoring to find a digital copy of the 1946 awake (consolation?
) issue 3/27 page 16.
("3/27" was how the wt pubs index had it.).
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Splash
Found a few earlier references than you had too:
Jehovah - w1879 October Vol.1 No.4 R44 p.8
God only has that life which never had a beginning and can never end. 1 Tim. 6:16.Jesus - w1895 October 1 Vol.XVI No.19 R1872 p.226
Then, too, as perfect men they will be the superiors and natural leaders of the world, and, according to promise, Christ will make them chiefs or "princes in all the earth." (Psa. 45:16.) They will be the seen representatives (Luke 13:28) of God's Kingdom, while Christ and the Church, the real spiritual rulers, will be unseen.--1 Tim. 6:16; Heb. 1:3; 1 John 3:2.Jehovah - w1895 October 15 Vol.XVI No.20 R1879 p.239
This quality inheres in Jehovah God alone, as it is written, "The Father hath life in himself" (John 5:26); i.e., his existence is not a derived one, nor a sustained one. He "only hath immortality" (1 Tim. 6:16)Jesus - w1900 December 15 Vol.XXI No.24 R2747 p.383 "WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY"--WHO?
Question.--How should we understand 1 Tim. 6:14-16? Is it the Father or the Son who is referred to as the "King of kings and Lord of lords, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto," etc.?
Answer.--We understand that the Apostle here refers to our Lord Jesus.Jehovah - w1906 Vol. XXVII No.11 R3788 p.172
[Jesus is] God manifest in the flesh--the best possible manifestation of the Father amongst men, of that heavenly Father of whom it is declared, "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen or can see." (1 Tim. 6:16.) -
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Request For Awake 1946 3/27 page 16 - Explanation of 1Tim 6:15-16
by Bobcat ini am endeavoring to find a digital copy of the 1946 awake (consolation?
) issue 3/27 page 16.
("3/27" was how the wt pubs index had it.).
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Splash
Bobcat, some of your references are not quite correct.
Here are the results I found:
WHO DOES 1TIM 6:15-16 APPLY TO?
Jehovah - w1931 3/1 p. 76 para.2
In 1 Timothy 6: 16 it is stated that originally God only had immortality.Jehovah - w1932 4/1 p. 104 "The Dawn Of Creation"
God is invisible to man, and always will be. It is He "who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see; to whom be honour and power everlasting". (1 Tim. 6: 16)Both Jehovah and Jesus - hp42 p.44 - (1942 "Hope in a Righteous World")
The apostle Paul, writing, of course, prior to the return of Christ Jesus and the setting up of the Kingdom, says of God: "Who ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." (1 Timothy 6:16) Had Jesus been immortal when he came to earth he could not have died as a ransom for humankind; but now since his resurrection from the dead, at which time God clothed him upon with immortality, the foregoing text (1 Timothy 6: 16) also applies to Christ Jesus as the only immortal creature of God.Jesus - w1948 10/15 p. 317
the apostle Paul said of Jesus at that time: "The King of kings, and Lord of lords; who only hath immortality." (1 Tim. 6: 15, 16)Jehovah - w64 7/1 p. 406 par. 10 "Fully Accomplish Your Ministry"
You may wonder how frail, mortal creatures could possibly reflect Jehovah’s glory, when no man can see his face and live. (Ex. 33:20; compare also 1 Timothy 6:16)
Jesus - w66 1/15 p. 39 "The Sign of the Son of Man"
Like his Father, Jesus now "dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see."—Acts 1:11; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16.Both Jehovah and Jesus? - w68 9/1 p. 520 Is Your Soul Immortal?
At 1 Timothy 1:17 and 6:16 God and Christ are spoken of as being immortal, or incorruptible.Jesus - w69 8/15 p. 484 Christ's Return—What Does It Mean for You?
As a mighty invisible spirit creature, the resurrected Jesus "dwells in an unapproachable light," and "not one of men has seen or can see" him.— 1 Tim. 6:16.
Jesus - w08 9/15 p. 31 par. 2 Highlights From the Letters to the Thessalonians and to Timothy
1 Tim 6:15, 16 - Do these words apply to Jehovah God or to Jesus Christ? These words apply to the one whose manifestation they describe, namely, Jesus Christ. -
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How to argue with a JW who says the org never said the end in 75
by dogon ini have argued with several jws who are now being trained to deny the org ever said the end in 75, what is your approach?.
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Splash
And then as 1975 began, so did the back pedalling.
Audio lecture given in early 1975 by Frederick W. Franz, then Vice President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, at Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, California.
18:20 "But the big questions is this "Is this year, 1975, the final year, the last year for the ingathering of the other sheep? Now we're all interested in that.... We found that just like you here, [other brothers] also were interested in this current year of 1975. What does it signify for Gods people? Is it the year, the final year, the last year for the ingathering of the other sheep before the great tribulation breaks and reaches its climax in the battle of the great day of God the almighty at Armageddon? Is this the year which will lead right on into the establishment of the day of the Lord Jesus Christ? Well, how are we to view this year?..."
38:42 "We know it's a critical year, we know we're near something, but we're not saying."
42:54 "Now our enquiries around the world of the brothers as to what they're expecting to occur between now and the end of 1975 has revealed that some are very sanguine about matters in the near future, and they're expecting the great tribulation to occur, and the destruction of Babylon the Great, and the annihilation of all the political systems of this world, and then the binding Satan and his demons and their abyssing, to occur before this year is ended, this year 1975."
44:39 "But, in view of what the scriptures inform us, are we warranted in expecting so much to occur by September the 5th 1975? Does September the 5th at sundown when the year 1976 will begin, lunar time, mean that it is time for the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ to begin? And accordingly, does it mean that we are 6,000 years advanced into the 7th day, the 7th creative day of Jehovah God, his rest day, his Sabbath day? Does it mean that? No!"
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Fred Franz - Assembly Speech in Los Angeles, Feb 1975
8:40 "Now that's all it says about 1900 and 75" (crowd laughs and claps)
"And that's all we can say to John Dark, the religious editor of the Los Angeles Times, or anybody else out there in the world who wants to know what we have published regarding this critical year. We know it's a critical year, we know we're near something! But we're not saying" (Crowd roars with laughter and claps)
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Finally a 21st Century Governing Body member, Stephen Lett, feels it's safe to now admit that they got 1975 wrong! Apparently the Faithful and Discreet Slave are like an overly sensitive smoke detector.
It's revealing how Lett describes the Faithful Slave as 'they' and 'them' instead of 'me' and 'us'.
00:13 "Let's just talk about some of this documented evidence that this is certainly the case. Now it's true that the Faithful Slave, at times, has had wrong expectations throughout the decades..."
00:50 "See, sometimes they've had wrong expectations, for example 1975. Many responsible ones at headquarters, they thought maybe, maybe Jehovah would bring the 1,000 year reign to begin in that year, but of course it didn't happen did it. And we're happy that literally millions have come into the Truth since 1975.... It doesn't mean the Faithful Slave is unfaithful."
1:50 "So at times the Faithful Slave maybe's been like that smoke alarm, although they've learned from their mistakes that you really can't be specific about Jehovah's day."
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How to argue with a JW who says the org never said the end in 75
by dogon ini have argued with several jws who are now being trained to deny the org ever said the end in 75, what is your approach?.
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Splash
Find these convention recordings online and ask what conclusions are logically drawn:
Spring 1967 Circuit Assembly "God Cannot Lie", Sheboygan Wisconsin
Sunday 5:40pm Charles Sinutko - "Serving With Everlasting Life In View"2:00 "It almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season because he has held up before all of us a new goal, a new year, something to reach out for and it just seems it's given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975. There's been a lot of talk about the year, in fact even this week some individuals have been wondering, well, what does it mean? Do we dare talk about it? Is it something we can discuss among ourselves even though we might not talk too much about it in public? Do we really know what it means? Well we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower because the WT has been very specific as to what the year 1975 means for us. If you want to write down the page, 262 in the 1967 issue of the WT we read "What does the year 1975 mean for humankind? The end of 6,000 years of human existence and possibly the time when God executes the wicked and starts off a 1,000 year reign under his son Jesus Christ".
6:37 "There's only 8 years until '75. How little time there is left..."
20:11 "There's only one thing that's going to count when that time comes and that's that we are 'inside', and we hope that all of us here tonight are going to listen to the Society's implorings. We're going to listen to their agonizing entreaties "Brothers get in" because they know what's coming. And it's coming fast and don't wait until '75. The door's going to be shut before then."
22:10 "As one brother put it, 'Stay alive 'til '75'. "
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November 1968, District Overseer Duggan at the Pampa Texas Assembly
0:01 "So Jehovah's word is in your mouth. This Good News must be preached first, before Armageddon. There is, will be now a remaining few months. Not really a full 83 months remains, so let's be faithful and confident and we will be alive beyond the war of Babylon; we will be alive beyond the war of Armageddon. Yes, brothers and sisters, by doing this, having plenty to do, we will be alive in God's new system of things, to live and to share and to work for a thousand years, and there will be plenty to do for the next 1,000 years."Note: November 1968 plus "a full 83 months" brings us to October 1975.
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1968 BBC interview with Phillip Reece, the Assistant to the Presiding Minister at Watchtower House (UK bethel), discussing 1975
1:50 Journalist: "I challenged him that the threat of a year of doom, 1975, seemed to be a fairly wild and irresponsible surmise."
Philip Reece: "er well, I don't accept your term 'the year of doom 1975', but we don't, erm, put it as a threat. We firmly believe that in the near future this system of things is going to perish, because the Bible plainly says that all the way through it. But, er, we want people to appreciate that it is the prelude to the kingdom of God. You see you sweep away the old before the incoming of the new."
Journalist: "Well if the end does come in '75 will we all be dead?"
Philip Reece: "Yes, er, Armageddon when it comes is going to mean a sweeping away of this system, and the system of things, of course, is built up of individuals. That's why we do not tire of telling the people 'You must now come out of this system of things, Come out of Babylon the Great and take your stand for God's kingdom because that alone is going to survive'. "
Journalist: "What will happen to the rest of the people?"
Phillip Reece: "The rest of the people will perish."
Journalist: "How?"
Philip Reece: "By, erm, the, erm, by the forces of, er, God, just how I don't know, er, I don't know exactly how."
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April 15th 1972 Lakeworth Florida
Ulysses V Glass - "Will Your Name be found Written in the Book of Life?"6:09 "...the end will come when the witnessing has been completed in all the earth. And so they worry a lot about things; "What are you going to do with China, how are you going to get into China, how will you have reached all those people there, how are we ever going to reach them by 1975?, for example.
...It's His word and He knows what He's going to do before He brings the end on this system of things."
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May 1972 Floyd Kite - "Are You Marked For Survival?"
52:16 "There are a dozen inexorable forces at work right now that are converging together inside of this decade that will spell disaster for this system of things, and there is nothing that no human can do to prevent it."
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1972 "Divine Rulership" District Assembly
Day 4. 4:40 Brother Reese - "Closing Remarks"15:23 - "We had that advice about 1975, Not changing a thing! Not changing a thing!... We have stronger reason to see that the middle 70's are going to see the complete change in earths affairs."
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The UN Files - Print Out And Keep For Your Next JW Visitor
by pale.emperor ini've been researching the wt and the un involvement.
when i was still in and i first seen the un letter online, my cognitive dissonance kicked and i told myself it'll be a fake.
an apostate lie.. and seeing as no jw i've spoken to has ever heard of it, and flatly deny any involvement "no, they wouldn't do that", i decided to do a little "personal study" of my own.
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Splash
If the WTBTS were not under obligation by the UN terms to promote the UN, then the Awake 98/11/22 would not contain four articles (pages 3 - 14) full of UN information.
The articles were written in response to the UN requiring all NGO's to publish something relating to the UN's 50 year birthday. http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/sites/50years/
WT complied:A "long job finished" - Positive appraisal of the UN Declaration of Human Rights.
View from the 29th floor - Agreeable interview with a UN 'chief' regarding human rights.
Human Rights and Wrongs today - Discusses UN Articles 1, 4, 18, 23 and 25 in a supportive way.
Human Rights for all, A Worldwide Reality - More UN quotations and blurring it with the Bible.Bear in mind that the UN is the demonic organisation from Revelation - Jehovah's nemesis!!
This link has another UN NGO summary pdf (not mine), as a good refutation of the 'jehovahsjudgement' article.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/99gqtrSo how is the WT not getting involved with the harlot riding the UN's back?
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charities commission in the UK
by zeb ini am writing to ask for your help in progressing our inquiries into the watch tower bible and tract society of britain.
as you may already know, our work is divided into two parts.
one is an inquiry into the charity’s policy and practices on safeguarding children and adults who are vulnerable.
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Splash
This wt article suggests that domestic abuse victims are partly responsible for their being beaten.
w12 2/15 p. 29 par. 12 Happiness Is Possible in a Divided Household
"The night before, Steve had hit me as I had tried to prove a point, and I was feeling sad and sorry for myself... Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve"
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2016-07-15 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN RUSSIA New law on missionary activity
by wifibandit in2016-07-15 to all bodies of elders in russia re: new law on missionary activity.
translation:.
to all bodies of elders in russia new law on missionary activity.
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Splash
FIELD SERVICE IS VOLUNTARY AND PUBLISHERS DO NOT REPRESENT THE WTBTS
You are first interviewed: Organized to do Jehovah's Will book p.79
"The presiding overseer will arrange to have two elders (one being a member of the congregation service committee) discuss the matter with you and the bible student."
You must qualify: Organized to do Jehovah's Will book page 81
"Once the elders determine that the bible student qualifies to engage in the field ministry, he is eligible to receive his own copy of Organized to do Jehovah's will book"
The WT has minimum requirements to meet: Organized to do Jehovah's Will book page 87
"Auxiliary, regular, and special pioneers as well as missionaries have hour requirements to meet. Congregation publishers are likewise encouraged to put the Kingdom interest first and exert themselves in the ministry to accomplish all that they can in the field according to their circumstances"
The WT has rules to cater for exceptions: Organized to do Jehovah's Will book page 87
"Time spent in the field service should be reported in full hours. An exception to this is made when a publisher is very limited because of advanced age, is shut in , is confined to a nursing home, or is otherwise incapacitated. Such a publisher may report field service in 15-minute increments rather than in the full hours. Even if he gives a witness for just 15 minutes during a month, He should report this time so that he can continue to be counted as a regular Kingdom Publisher"
The WT's elders uphold the rules: Organized to do Jehovah's Will Book page 87
"This provision is made, however, only for those who are very limited in their activity. The congregation service committee will determine whether a publisher qualifies for this arrangement. "
The WT train you: km 3/04 p. 4 par. 3 A Cavalry Charge That Involves You
By means of the Theocratic Ministry School and other congregation meetings, God's ministers have been trained to speak God's message with authority.
And equip you: km 3/04 p. 4 par. 6 A Cavalry Charge That Involves You
Trained, well equipped to deliver God's message, and working under angelic direction, Jehovah's people are an irresistible force. Let us continue to play our part in the fulfillment of this thrilling prophetic vision.
And organise you: km 7/12 p. 5 par. 4 Before Preaching, You May Need to Search
the body of elders, particularly the service overseer, should organize and oversee the search work
And tell you what to wear: km 3/96 p. 3 par. 6 Preparation—Key to Success
In addition to preparing and practicing your presentation, you should also ask yourself, 'Is the clothing that I plan to wear suitable for the ministry?'
Then you must report back to the WT: Organized to do Jehovah's Will book page 86
"It is important to submit an accurate report of Hours in field Service."
BUT you are not representatives: km 2/89 pp. 3-4 Our Identification as Jehovah's Witnesses
Therefore, publishers do well to avoid representing themselves as agents or representatives of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., or any other corporation used by "the faithful and discreet slave" to advance Kingdom interests.—Matt. 24:45-47... If any publishers use a personal name card in connection with their field service activities, they should not print thereon that they are representatives of the Watchtower Society.
You are on your own and are personally liable: BoE letter July 15 2014 Para. 4
Any application to use a mobile cart or to set up a table or kiosk to display literature must be filled out in the name of an individual publisher, not in the name of the congregation, any corporation used by the organization, or "Jehovah's Witnesses." If a small administrative fee is needed in order to acquire space in a public area, it is to be paid by the individual publisher, not the congregation. Publishers should carefully review any such applications to see what responsibility they are taking upon themselves with respect to liability. Publishers who apply to distribute literature at these areas are doing so on their own initiative as part of their personal ministry.