Another good catch Splash. This "new light" has got more holes in it than a sieve. I really, really hope they bring a WT out on this just to see how many articles it takes them to try and make sense of it.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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80
I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?
by booker-t ini have been hearing and reading on websites about some "new light" jws are saying concerning the faithful and discreet slave class.
it sounds like the same information they have been saying for years.
i was always taught the faithful and discreet slave class is the annoited governing body members dispensing food at the proper time for the non annoited jws.
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I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?
by booker-t ini have been hearing and reading on websites about some "new light" jws are saying concerning the faithful and discreet slave class.
it sounds like the same information they have been saying for years.
i was always taught the faithful and discreet slave class is the annoited governing body members dispensing food at the proper time for the non annoited jws.
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konceptual99
100 years Splash? With the overlapping generations (but only one overlap of course) it could be 140 or more!
So, either all the dead anointed are still to be resurrected or they are in heaven EXCEPT the ones that were on the GB since surely the F&DS could still fail to be appointed over all the belongs and anyone that was part of that failed slave surely could not qualify as an anointed one. It doesn't make sense to resurrect a GB member such as Freddy only to tell him that the F&DS can't be appointed over all the belongings and he's toast!
Surely the GB cannot have been so presumptuous to assume that their version of looking after the domestics now automatically will entitle them to look after the belongings in the future? mmmm.....
The more I think about the holes in trying to square this circle the more I wonder if there is someone doing a massive face palm in Brooklyn now...
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I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?
by booker-t ini have been hearing and reading on websites about some "new light" jws are saying concerning the faithful and discreet slave class.
it sounds like the same information they have been saying for years.
i was always taught the faithful and discreet slave class is the annoited governing body members dispensing food at the proper time for the non annoited jws.
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konceptual99
@Splash
Thanks for posting the text from the website. I agree that it's clear that the appointment over the belongings is a future event, part of the GT according to the first quote. The second section backs this up.
I'd read the the aspect of resurrecting the individual members of the F&DS to heavenly life as the "rapture" of those members of the F&DS still alive on earth to heaven during the GT - i.e. the GB at the time of the GT. Don't forget they reiterated the notion that some of the anointed will be present to see the onset of the big A when vomiting the overlapping generations teaching.
So.. the conclusion I had drawn was that members of the anointed and, by extension, any of the GB that die during the "last days" would be resurrected to heaven immediately (as per old doctrine) thus getting that part of the reward. As a group, they would then be rewarded with appointment over the belongings during the GT thanks to the work of the those identified as the GB "class" (as there was no formal GB back then) since 1919.
I had not reached the same conclusion you had. I'm certainly not suggesting you are wrong since the whole thing is about as clear as mud, just that I had reached a different conclusion and had missed your interpretation. The way you have suggested it be interpreted does raise some very interesting questions:
1 - did any of the anointed who died pre 1919 get a resurrection in 1919 (or is it 1914 - need to check)
2 - do anointed ones (bearing in mind they are not the F&DS unless they are also on the GB) get an immediate resurrection if they die before the appointment of the 144000 over all the master's belongings?
3 - do any of the F&DS get a resurrection if they die during the last days
4 - do the anointed and/or the GB only get resurrected once the appointment over all his belongings is made
So, in answer to your question as to " what conclusion can you draw except that the FDS resurrection is still future, tied to the approval and reward?" I would say that you could draw at least one, perhaps several other, conclusions, simply because the whole thing is reactionary tripe from the mentalists in Brooklyn and has not been properly dealt with as yet.
I do, however, really like the fact that your conclusion throws up even more questions that are not easily explained away.
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Should the Watch Tower Corporation Be held Legal Responsible if it Sends A Known Pedophile Knock on Unsuspecting People Doors Preaching Their Propaganda?
by frankiespeakin incomment please..
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konceptual99
Of course the WTS should be held responsible. They are the ones who determine if a person is considered as a risk. They determine the level of warning (if any) that will be given to the congregation. The elders just do what legal tell them without considering that they have a responsibility too.
How long would an elder remain on the body if he broke ranks and warned parents or prevented a pedo from going door to door if legal had said to say nothing?
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This week's Oral Review
by Quarterback ingasp....i hate this part on the meeting, and i don't feel like studying for it.. has anyone done it already, and want to share it with me?
i feel like cheating this week..
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konceptual99
Yup I go - most of the time. My question is why waste even more time pre studying for it, especially the review.
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What group within the Witnesses has the highest drop out rate?
by Ultimate Axiom inif you could categorise jehovahs witnesses into their various groups, i.e.
publisher, auxiliary pioneer, regular pioneer, special pioneer, missionary, co, do, bethel worker, born-ins, etc etc, (and you can subdivide into as many groups as you wish) what group do you think has the highest drop out rate?
i remember an ex ny bethellite saying that bethel cured him of the watchtower, and after reading the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/160509/1/warren-schroeder-from-bethel-on-freddy-kline-and-the-apostate-books my guess is that it would be ny bethellites, but i am interested to know if there is a consensus on this, or on any other group, or no group at all..
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konceptual99
Definately those born/raised in. No stats to back it up but just look at how many people exit around 14-25. Have to agree that the educated ones are likely a big proportion.
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I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?
by booker-t ini have been hearing and reading on websites about some "new light" jws are saying concerning the faithful and discreet slave class.
it sounds like the same information they have been saying for years.
i was always taught the faithful and discreet slave class is the annoited governing body members dispensing food at the proper time for the non annoited jws.
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konceptual99
Splash said...
WT 07 1/1 said the 1st resurrection began between 1914-1935 and some resurrected ones are communicating truths to the GB. The new teaching is that this resurrection will not occur until they are judged and appointed over all his belongings in the future.
I'd not picked up on this before and I don't recall seeing this clearly spelt out by the WT in their summary. Is this an inference deduced from the reasoning that the F&DS do not get there appointment over the belongings until the GT (i.e. after a rapture to the heavens)? It's not clear to me that the teaching that any anointed person who dies post 1919 gets an instant resurrection to heaven has changed. I don't see that the reward of a heveanly resurrection has become the same as the reward of being appointed over all the belongings. Having said that, it's not 100% clear that the inference cannot be made.
The reality is that it's all a load of tripe and does not really matter but I will be interested to see if the WTS ever picks up on this point and explains it properly via the pages of the WT or even in a DC talk. Perhaps the delay is because someone has only recently realised this aspect of the new doctrine is affected and they are trying to work out what to say!
It would be quite a change to say that non of the annointed are in heaven yet...
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This week's Oral Review
by Quarterback ingasp....i hate this part on the meeting, and i don't feel like studying for it.. has anyone done it already, and want to share it with me?
i feel like cheating this week..
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konceptual99
erm... why even bother?
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CO want to talk to me
by goodsoul inco want to talk to me.
first of all, i am very apologize for my english- i am studying this language nearly 2 years, so it's not that good yet, unfortunately.
also, it's my first topic.
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konceptual99
Welcome goodsoul. I can really empathise with your situation as I am a serving MS trying to disengage with as little collateral damage as possible.
There is some particuarly good advice for fading that I have had on this board that has already been mentioned:
1 - never openly discuss doctrine, especially with other elders
2 - play the card of being burnt out, depressed or something else that is emotional and cannot be tracked back to doctrine. If you are saying you are low and need time to concentrate on your family it makes it very difficult for the elders to discipline you without appearing completely unloving and unjust
3 - if asked the "loyalty question" then never say you don't think the GB are the F&DS or the organisation is not being used by Jehovah. You can outright lie and just say "yes" or use a few more evasive non-answers to get round the question - it depends how smart or dogmatic the elders are you are meeting with. If it's the CO then I would be inclined to lie as they have done this a 1000 times and are 100% company men. The other thing to you can do is express indignation that they are questioning your loyalty.
4 - Do not trust any other elder, even if they are supposedly your friend. Loyalty to the org and a lack of a decent pair of bollocks mean they will usually do the wrong thing and drop you like a stone.
If it's the CO's visit then things can escalate VERY quickly. If he thinks you are a dead duck then the body will just follow what he says. If you are determined to fade then you have to do some damage limitation and keep well away from doctrine. You need him to moderate the body's response and he will only do that if convinced you are just low and can be built up.
I guess you could try and not meet with him but I think that is a high risk strategy and others will have a more experienced view on that.
Just remember it's not called a fade for nothing. Doing things quickly will draw attention to you and will inevitably force your hand or the hand of elders if kept unchecked.
Of course, you could just say bugger it and go for broke but you will be DF'ed before you know it.
All the best and keep us posted.
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Are homosexuals born that way? The March 15 Watchtower seems to say so.
by matt2414 in15 one brother who was raised in a christian household wrote that for as long as he could remember, he struggled with homosexual tendencies.
he said: i always felt awkward.
it seemed that i didnt fit in anywhere.
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konceptual99
This is from the YP Ask book where they sit firmly on the fence as to if homosexuals are born that way and like the "behaviour" to someone pre-disposed to violence.
“Homosexuals can’t change their orientation; they’re born that way.”
“The Bible doesn’t comment on the biology of homosexuals, although it acknowledges that some traits are deeply ingrained. (2 Corinthians 10:4, 5) Even if some are oriented toward the same sex, the Bible tells Christians to shun homosexual acts.”
Suggestion: Rather than get ensnared in a debate about the cause of homosexual desires, emphasize that the Bible prohibits homosexual conduct. To make a comparison, you could say: “You know, many claim that violent behavior can have a genetic root and that as a result, some people are predisposed to it. (Proverbs 29:22) What if that was true? As you might know, the Bible condemns fits of anger. (Psalm 37:8; Ephesians 4:31) Is that standard unfair just because some may be inclined toward violence?”